Subject: pencak silat
From: ANTx215
Date: 07-Nov-99 | 11:15 AM
wasnt there an article ont his in the last matial arts illustrated? with oleg and bas on the cover for krav maga. they said its supposedly the most brutal art. i dont know. anyone know about it?
Pentjak silat or pencak silat is the generic term for the MA of Indonesia. It does have a reputation for being very nasty to be on the receiving end of. Most stlyes address stand-up and wepons fighting with many styles including grappling techniques. Generally silat is not ring orientated hence the brutal methods.
Dom
It is a nasty art. It attacks zones with a lot of interesting techniques. Not geared for the ring because of the need of this art to strike in areas that are offlimits, and manipulate in ways that are illegal. It is complex, but fun to learn because you can mold your style to fit how you fight. Good for learnign weapons, and timing too. If you have the opportunity to learn from a good instructor, it would be worth your while to know about it.
note: OV1 said good instructer. It is a complicated art and you need a guy who knows his stuff.
Silat throws BTW are NASTY!!!!!!! Funny, a lot of Silat locks are found in Catch
wasn't there a silat guy who fought in a non televised fight in ufc II. i think he got beat like a drum.
does anyone remember him, he was the guy crawling all over the floor during the prefight clips.
Yes; Remco Pardo (sp?) really pounded him. I have had interesting experiences with the local Silat school here. In defense of they system however; others nationwide have told me this local person is not looked upon well by them.
Again, this is a style that is rendered ineffective when placed under rules. Just by virtue of the types of attacks that are made. Not saying that it is to deadly to be in the ring, just that the things that this art entails, are not allowed in the ring. This art was created for the sole purpose of killing or at the very very least, maiming. So please do not judge the art by the performances that you have seen in the ring. That is not a fair assesment.
Silat is a generic term like Karate or Kung Fu. There are litereally thousands of styles in the archipalego
Well, wearing a T-shirt that says "Silat 10 Gracie Jiujitsu 0; or sending people to another persons school ARMED with knives to start trouble is a very fair assessment of the man who runs the school around here. Such actions are asking for the kind of posts you are seeing.
The simple truth is that the way you defeat "deadly" techniques (that in no way can be mastered) is with safe ones that you can apply on live resisting people. This was Kano's gift to the martial art world and it spawned BJJ; Sambo, and many other like minded arts.
To blow off BJJ/GJJ/Grappling by saying "we use knives" loses something when you are on the other end of a Sig P-220, and yes, I have a tape of the entire event.
Again, the person makes the style, and no style is the "deadly system of shinanju" (obscure reference; lets see who picks up on it).
"The Adventures of Remo Williams" I think.
TTT
Remo Williams, the adventure begins!
As to Silat, I believe that there is a great deal of combat knowledge in the different styles. Check out www.kuntaosilatdethouars.com. He has a clip on there of "Monkey Boxing". It has a couple of guys doing takedowns and moving between ground and pound positions.
As a historical note, and I think that others would agree with me, is that silat and kuntao are representative of what kung fu arts used to look like. DeThouars and others cite HsingI and Bagua with influence on Silat. The political upheavals in this century in China, and especially the cultural revolution, really destroyed the martial traditions of that country, with Wushu being pushed in its place.
I think that Donn Draeger also claimed in one of his books that Arab traders also contributed to some styles of Silat. It is possible that Silat may contain principles from old Persian wrestling from this source.
The photos weren't always clear but the fighting instinct is definitely apparent in his moves. I woudn't pick a fight with Willem DeThouars.
There are slightly over 700 styles of Silat known at this time.
Just a little FYI
Keep Training Hard....
Michael
ttt
It's also supposed to be effective when fighting on surfaces like rocks or sand. If anything, you must have incredible balance to master some of the Silat techniques.
Plus, I always thought the name Pencak Silat was a cool name.
Check out the December 1999 issue of Martial Arts - Combat & Sports magazine. There is an excellent article about Pa Herman in it. The article will give you a little more insight into some of the Silat arts.
See the book "Indonesian Fighting Arts" by Donn Draeger-an excellent reference. Silat is dangerous because its practitioners come from a dangerous place-Indonesia. Most styles tend to be well rounded-striking, moving, throwing, weapons, outdoor training. Fascinating national history.
watch out for the toe knife. apparently there is a foot blade that can be held between the toes and used quite effectively. want to learn weapons? the filipino and indonesian styles are great.
Damn, the first time I wrote this it didn't post.
Anyway, there's a site, mindboxing.com, that had a message board here. All everyone did was talk trash about the site, but never stopped to actually take a look around and see that there was two great articles posted by an outside source talking about serak-silat, Kun-tao, iron palm, dim mak, internal fighting in general. Very technical artical and alot to take in.
Now, the site itself was seedy. Just seemed like a commercial to get you to buy a membership for their school.
As for Silat ,and the internal arts in general, it's a wicked art form with alot of practical uses in self-defense. To mock it is to take a narrow view of the arts. The internal arts are just another brick to add to the foundation.
not all Silat are 'internal'--some are very 'external' remember what KempoMike said...700 styles
And let me add some are VERY serious about this stuff. When a MAJOR Silat group heard what the local guy was pulling here, lets just say I had to BEG them NOT to go deal with it.....
Some people fail the sense of humor test! : )
But seriously; you have to look at these things on a case by case basis. For the most part Aikido as prasticed in the US is silly and won't work. BUT; I can take you to the Tokyo Police Academy to play with some people who will wack you so hard your parents will die!
I don't even want to tell you what it's like doing Judo with those people.....
I am not surprised that people are serious about it. Most Indonesian Silat styles are still taught in living rooms. They are family or village systems handed down and refined through the generations. There is also a national style which is more like karate then Silat from, say, West Java. Like any art you have to be diligent in your search for a reputable teacher. When you find one, you'll find that Silat can be very nasty.
I just saw the Donn Draeger book at Barnes and Noble. Its pricy ---$25. It has some great stuff. They have some photos of some Silat ground work. Looks very good, but you really need to have good flexible hips. They have a photo of a couple of guys doing a type of waki- gatame/stomach armlock from the side.
Lots of good weapon info. I asked my wife to get it for me for Christmas. Good book.
I have not seen the book, but it sounds like he might be refering to Harimau style. That is one of my favorites in the Silat realm. It has lots of ground attacks.
There are some exercises and some rather odd stretches that Silat practitioners will perform to loosen up there hips. This is where the Indonesians have a real edge having done these movements most of their lives.
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