Stickgrappler's MMA page - Unofficial Underground forum archives

Hey samboboy

Subject: Hey samboboy
From: lkfmdc
Date: 04-Apr-00 | 01:17 AM

Thought I'd start a new thread to talk to you in and avoid the silliness.

Wonder what you find so "bad" about "American Muay Thai". Seems the biggest complaint is the lack of elbows and knees to head. But America is not Thailand, conditions are very different. Don't you think?

In Thailand, it isn't an issue at all. But don't you think a lot of north americans are not thrilled with the idea of being elbowed? Over here, most are NOT pro fighters living in camps, they are amateurs who have jobs to return to. Or wives and kids who aren't thrilled by the prospect either.

If the art is so conditional upon the training regime, doesn't something have to change when people are not doing it 5 hours a day, 6 days a week?

Heck, just some thoughts

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From: lkfmdc
Date: 04-Apr-00 | 01:28 AM

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From: jugigatame
Date: 04-Apr-00 | 02:21 AM

ttt

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From: samboboy
Date: 04-Apr-00 | 02:34 AM

Give me time and I will write an answer tomorrow night I have to sleep(damn you human evolution!)

But I will say that what you mentioned figures prominently in my views.

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From: lkfmdc
Date: 04-Apr-00 | 12:38 PM

looking forward to your discussion

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From: samboboy
Date: 04-Apr-00 | 02:51 PM

What is Muay Thai?

First a little bit about me. I am not a world Champion Thai boxer, nor am I a certified ahjarn (teacher, Kru is a term of respect used for teachers, like –san in Japanese). I am not Thai and am not a historian. What I am is someone who has over the course of five years lived, trained and fought in Thailand against all Thai opponents. I have easily seen over 500 matches live and have cornered twenty or so including the famous Thai vs. Burma bare fist matches held upcountry every year. When I live in Thailand I stay with the camp they are my family, I eat, drink, go out with them. I am fortunate to include among my friends Lumpini and Omnoi Champions (the same as a world champion). In fact I will most likely be back in Thailand next week.

First a bit about Thai Boxers, all these people who do it are heroes. Most of them come from abject poverty, the sort of poverty we can’t even imagine. They start training at a young age around 10 or 11. By twelve they begin to fight and they fight every three weeks or so for the next ten years of their lives that is why Thai boxers have easily 150-200 fights in a pro career. They leave everything behind to be a boxer, family, friends, and school. They are giving up any chance if advancement in any other field to pursue this dream. The Thai champions are national heroes, Thai boxing is shown on TV almost everyday and everyone knows the names of the champions. Many of these kids have even been abandoned by their parents at the camp. I have one friend who’s parents left him at the camp because fighting was the only thing he was good at, they show up every few weeks to collect portion of his winnings then off they go back into countryside.

Thai boxers train hard everyday they put in 5-6 hours of training up at 5am to run 10kms and then bag work skipping and a light breakfast. They run again in the afternoon and do yet more bag work and more skipping and work the pads and spar. It is in the very simple existence that the fighters are polished by shear repetition. Excuse my cheesy poetry but it is like a jagged piece of glass on the beach made smooth after years of having wave after wave crash upon it. The water over time smoothes out the glass and the training after years polishes the fighters.

Training is crude by our standards, jab-elbow-kick, push kick-round house kick. As well as the countless hours spent working the clinch. This is where the differences really become apparent in the use of the clinch in MT in Thailand. Very seldom do we see the same amount and degree of clinch work that we see there, of course most Americans learn the clinch and the knee but the don’t learn the elbows and the throws and the little tricks that are passed down over the years from coach to coach. Of course on reason for this is because of the lack of elbows in western MT. Understandably so westerners are weary of the elbow, the elbow is the cause of most of the cuts and scars you see on Thai boxers. This is a starting point of where the two styles Western and Thai Muay Thai begin to diverge. Think of it the main reason Americans don’t like the elbow is because of the ability is has to scar and injure us. Thai’s have no such worry they realize that the rewards of winning the match are more important than the chances of being hurt.

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From: Sothy
Date: 04-Apr-00 | 03:08 PM

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From: samboboy
Date: 04-Apr-00 | 03:21 PM

We start to see actually philosophical differences in the two styles. The ways they are actually approached are different. We see it as a hobby something we do to make ourselves feel better, more secure, more relaxed. They see it as WHAT they do, it is how they are they are defined as people. When we add in the spiritual side, which is missing from western style the rift becomes even greater. I know that many schools in America teach the Wai Kru and Ram muay but how many of them believe in the power behind the dances and the Wai, for us westerners it is simply a custom for the deeply Buddhist Thais it is part of their identity. When you fight in Thailand there is a moment where you perform the wai (palms together, head bowed, and tips of your thumbs touching the nose) with your coach, he says a prayer for you to give you luck and protection. For the Thais this is real, this is not some quaint custom this is an integral part of the fight without it they will not fight this is how strongly they believe in these things, not to mention magic spells, blessed charms, etc.

The spirituality is a part of Muay Thai that cannot be stripped away if you see a fight and there is no Ram Muay it is not a Muay Thai fight it is a Thai rules kick boxing match. Muay Thai is combination of various factors, social, religious, cultural, etc. Without these in place there is no Muay Thai.

What we are left with is an art stripped of the elements that make it Muay THAI think of it what really is the difference between San Shou and Muay Thai if you remove the high amplitude throws? Physically they appear the same so are they? If I do a reverse punch can I say I do Shotokan Karate? No you cannot, there is more to the art/sport than just the outward appearance especially so in Muay Thai.

I mean no disrespect to any American or European fighters I do not question their skill in the ring or ability to teach. There are awesome westerners teaching out there but what they are teaching is thai rules kickboxing, very few are teaching Muay Thai. If you asked me just after I first started training in Thailand if I was a Thai boxer, I would have said yes. No after a few more years I am not so sure if I could ever really become Nak Muay(thai boxer).

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From: Kirik
Date: 04-Apr-00 | 03:47 PM

Wow. What a GREAT post!

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From: samboboy
Date: 04-Apr-00 | 03:58 PM

*blush* gee thanks.

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From: TheSpecimen
Date: 04-Apr-00 | 04:04 PM

Very informative - thank you for taking the time to type all of that out!

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From: Koga!
Date: 04-Apr-00 | 04:47 PM

Great analysis! I worked in Thailand one summer. I often went to watch the top pros fight at Lumpini Stadium and was amazed at their ferocious attacks, outstanding conditioning and ability to withstand an enormous degree of punishment. When I went up to Chang Mai I saw a small local event which had 10-12 year olds on the undercard and realized that its not just the top pros who exhibit these amazing qualities of character in the ring - the fighting spirit is at the very essence of Muay Thai.

One of the most entertaining matches I ever saw was in an open bar on Patpong where some third rate Muay Thai fighters sparred in mock fights for the tourists (the only reason I was there was to watch the fights of course, must have got lost on my way to Lumpini). The US Navy was in town en mass on shore leave and a huge American sailor got into the ring and challenged an old pudgy Thai fighter who just finished a display fight. The sailor obviously had some kind of kick boxing experience and had about 40lbs on the older Thai guy. The sailor initially landed a few punches and was very quick on his feet. After the Thai fighter hit him with the 4th leg kick or so, all on the same spot, the sailor started to limp and I knew it was over. Without his mobility, the sailor was at the Thai fighters mercy, which was not forthcoming. Five or six leg kicks and an elbow or two later, the sailor was on the mat and I had to give his buddies directions to Bangkok Christian Hospital to treat his broken leg. Funny thing is that it was on of the few times I had a camera out with me, and I got some classic shots of the fighters with the screaming crowd of sailors and bargirls/ladyboys in the background cheering on the fight. - Koga!

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From: Koga!
Date: 04-Apr-00 | 05:43 PM

Do Muay Thai fighters in North America train with elbows and high knees or do they train by competition rules here?

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From: Tony Bananas
Date: 04-Apr-00 | 05:51 PM

well said.

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From: lkfmdc
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 02:26 AM

Nice post Marc. I can relate because you can fight under a set of rules like a Muay Thai fight (like we do sometimes, but we are NOT Muay Thai) or you can be part of the tradition.

It is actually the same in San Shou. My gym is based on a traditional method and our san shou is just the ring test of that method. I have a "sifu" and I am a "sifu" and we are more than fighters and coaches, we are family. There is honor, belonging, etc. Then there are gyms that just fight with leg kicks and throws but aren't "San Shou" in that traditional sense. Got me?

But of course, there is the problem of making something fit a different world. In international san shou, they had knees and elbows but got rid of them. They still have DIRECT kicks to the knees (side kicks) but I often worry about my American students, training 3 times a week, not pro fighters, fighting with them. I don't have a perfect answer at all. Just some random thoughts

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From: Lockz
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 03:06 AM

Theads like these just make me cry tears of joy! Why can't we all discuss like that?

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From: Slick
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 03:21 AM

Nice thread. I nominate Marc's post for post of the month.

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From: manara
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 07:14 AM

ttt

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From: ElephanyMilisto
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 07:22 AM

I wanna see some pics of the bar girls in Thai land !!! :-)

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From: laxative
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 07:45 AM

The International AMATEUR Muay Thai Federation fight with original Thai rules (elbows and knees to the head). But the fighters have to wear boxing helmets, body pads, elbow pads, knee pads, shin pads and of course boxing gloves.

As you see there are different ways to make the sport safer without having to abandon elbows and knees to the head.

Find out more about the http://www.iamtf.org/ International Amateur Muay Thai Federation. Go to ''Tournaments'' to see a picture of the pads.

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From: sifu michael
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 08:37 AM

What do you think we would have to do to get more threads of this caliber? Whatever it is, I'm all for it! Very classy, gentlemen.

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From: Tony Bananas
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 09:36 AM

yup. post of the month. easily...

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From: OriginallBloodClot
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 09:44 AM

ttt

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From: samboboy
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 09:58 AM

MY COACH KRU KOM R.I.P.
Lumpini Champion and best friend a fighter could have

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From: samboboy
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 10:06 AM

My closest friend in Thailand Kem, he is the Northen Thai Champion at 146lbs and is deaf when he first started to fight they had to run in and stop him after the round was over because he couldn't hear the bell ring. He is 76-8 and puts almost every thing he makes towards his dream harley chopper, man you cannot imagine how long it has taken him to save up enough to buy some old piece of crap Harley and rebuild it from scratch.

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From: samboboy
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 10:10 AM

Photo's courtesy Mike Williamson AKA allornothing on the forum one of the best phtographers you'll ever meet. I expect money for that plug mike, heheh.

He is the one on the right, photo by me on a night in Chaweng Stadium, where Mike and I learned never to get a fight without first knowing who you were going to fight

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From: Lictor23
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 10:34 AM

God damn....great post.

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From: Sothy
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 10:59 AM

thanks Marc.

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From: coach
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 11:00 AM

Outstanding post samboboy! Being a military brat and joining the Navy, I've had the pleasure of visiting the birthplaces of martial arts and absorbing the culture. Poverty being the common denominator, Thailand and the Philippines are the most hard-core societies a westerner can imagine. Life is cheap, but their dreams are priceless. Kirik was right… outstanding thread.

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From: Phil Dunlap
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 11:56 AM

samboboy

Great post I am officially in awe of your ability to describe the difference in measning between the two. You hit the nail right on the head. The key difference is what the system means to those that are practicing it. To the Thais it is their lifeblood.

It sounds like you have had a great experiance over there and learned a hell of a lot more than just fighting.

Life in third world countries is hardso oppurtunities tend to have much more meaning

Phil

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From: Jfarrish
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 12:04 PM

Our Gymn is affiliated with fairtex and word is that fairtex is designing and elbow pad. Now elbows will be common in all amatuer fights.

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From: samboboy
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 12:05 PM

Phil,

Although I seldom post on your threads you are one of the forum members who's posts I enjoy reading the most so I take it as a real compliment.

Marc

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From: KDRay
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 12:14 PM

Keeeping this one close to the top.

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From: LDAP
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 12:33 PM

Samboboy,

You sir rock! This thread is what the underground should be about. As a student of Muay Thai, I can say you make all of us proud.

Regards,

LDAP

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From: samboboy
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 12:35 PM

*Please note I chnaged the names to protect one person I think you can guess who it is*

The day starts about 6am this is when we get up and warm up for our runs normally it is the Thai’s and the bravest of the foreigner (known as farang is Thailand), normally that means the farang who were not out drinking the night before. The camp is off a main road tucked in lane that leads to the jungle.

We start out with a slow pace, it is early and everyone is going to take it easy on the body. Slowly we start out towards the main road, at this time there isn’t much traffic, we aren’t choked by exhaust fumes and the temperature is bearable very shortly it will stop being so and will soar into the mid forties or 110 Fahrenheit. The road leads up to Doi Suthep Mountain, as we start to warm up we start pick up the pace, about ten of us in total running in line, half asleep wearing our boxing shorts and t-shirts we are sweating just enough to be uncomfortable.

The street vendors setting up shop that know us wave at us as we pass by, the ice cream on a bun vendor is particularly popular with the younger guys at the camp. As we pass the Chiang Mai University campus the road starts on a slow incline, at this point we have ran about 4km’s and our calves are beginning to feel it, the incline doesn’t help. The sun has risen now and the heat is becoming noticeable. The road turns from a major road into a small two lane road very soon the city is left behind and all there is besides us is jungle. As we run up the mountain road we start to pass the young novice monks who are going into town to receive alms, and food from the believers who line the road to feed them. They are about the same age as us but different in everyway, they are barefoot and wear the orange robe of a novice who is nit yet a full monk, both their heads and eyebrows are shaved and they are thin and gaunt looking, the antitheses of the young strong bodies of the boxers. Some of the boxer’s wai (a sign of respect) as we pass them, everyone is careful not to touch them or get in their way.

Soon we start to see crowds of people, we have reached the halfway point of our run, in the jungle a Buddhist temple stands, shining brilliantly in the morning sun, gilded in gold and covered with ancient illustrations of the life of Buddha. The people are laying flowers at a statue of King Rama IV one of Thailand’s most beloved monarchs, other are putting garlands on the statues of the elephants that guard the temple gates, even at this hour old women are kneeling before the alter outside, burning incense and laying lotus flowers praying for dead relatives and for good fortune. We turn around at this point and start to head down the mountain road our calves thankful for the break.

Taking a turn of the main road we go down a small soi (side street) which after 500meters or so leads into the jungle, we run along the dirt path every now and then passing a now abandoned Thai jungle hut, and seeing some families who still live in the traditional house on stilts roosters making whatever noise it is that roosters make and the occasional stray dog coming out to bark at us and seeing us running in formation changing it’s mind and retreating back into the thick jungle.

Eventually we make it back to the camp. Now is the time for us to stretch out and do a little work on the pads. One of the Farang a women form Denmark has a fight back home so she is working the pads in the special women’s ring, women are not allowed into the main ring as a tradition. The rest of us do rounds on the bags or mill about. Eventually everyone stops, the young boxers go and fetch rattan mats and lay them out on the concrete we all gather about, the young ones have the responsibility of bringing us the food. Today it is mounds of Northern Thai sticky rice and curries as well as a special delicacy laarb, laarb is freshly killed deer serves raw and covered in the most unbelievable amount of spices and chili’s if it wasn’t for the bile poured on top I probably would have joined in.

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From: MJBrack
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 12:43 PM

samboboy,

This is the most entertaining and enlightening thread I have read since I became a member of the forum, and I was among the first 100 members so I have been here a while. You truly have a natural ability for writing.

Mark

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From: Sothy
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 12:52 PM

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From: pit
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 12:53 PM

Damn! Now this is a post. Thanx for the info!

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From: mies
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 12:56 PM

More please. More!

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From: samboboy
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 12:58 PM

I make myself content on the chicken curry and dried fish dipped in nahm prik (chili water). After the breakfast is over we roll up the mats and the eleven or so cats that live at the camp come out to clean up the scraps, noticeably the cats don’t eat the laarb. It is time to sleep for me more than likely there is a small hangover to sleep off.

Waking up again at about 1pm I set off with Bruce a half maori Canadian oil rig worker, one of those naturally tough guys you just have to respect and Sak one of the coaches from the camp, to the American. I am not sure if that is the real name of the restaurant but that is what we call it. It is not a retaurant as we think of it imagine an outdoor patio with old plastic chairs and creaky tables that of the kind normally reserved for PTA meetings. The area is surrounded with a metal fence and when they want to close up they just close the gate. There are two women who run the restaurant, both of them are the best cooks in Thailand. We eat there often enough that everyone knows us we are the neighborhood locals and spend a good portion of life away from Training there. For me it is the usual Tom Kao Gai (chicken rice soup with enough chilies to cause hallucinations). Sak notoriously cheap con’s me into buying him a thai omlette, and drink. Duncan and I sit and shoot the shit while our friends filter into the restaurant.

In the end there are about ten of us todays conversation centers on whether you are gay if you sleep with a girl who used to be a man. Jens a Dane who’s wife used to be a man argues strongly that he is as straight as they come(we are not so sure of that), Tom(brother of a famous US TV star) and I disagree, Johan another Dane who accidently slept with a former man the week before is deadly quiet trying to be invisible with his hooded sweatshirt up and trying to concentrate on his chicken salad.

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From: bazzo
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 01:00 PM

SAMBOBOY-

jeez, great post.

love the kietbusaba pics and stories. i'm feeling you, man. on soi chiang kian right now typing an email, gotta get to bed soon now so i can get up to train tomorrow.

i can vouch for some of the stuff samboboy says, there is much more to muay thai than the knees and elbows. it is a lifestyle, sometimes chosen, sometimes not, but respected in a very special way in thailand. i have thought to myself more than once when i looked at the boys at our camp (Lanna MT in Chiang Mai) that this is all they have. Very few go to school, and their family consists mainly of trainers and other fighters. there is a reason they are tough as nails and kick like horses. muay thai is more than a sport, it is their life and will likely be in some capacity until they die.

bazzo

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From: samboboy
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 01:15 PM

Back to the camp to hang out and read a little bit I spend the better part of two hours reading old magazines and writing letters.

I am on the second floor patio of the old house I live in. It is two floors and the older fighters live there along with some foreigners. Downstairs is where the TV and VCR are set up the fighters spend the day watching fights and Thai game shows. Upstairs is the quiet place sometimes you will come out and fight a fighter who will be fighting later that night curled up asleep in the sofa on the patio trying to get some sleep in the shade and prepare himself mentally for tonight’s battle.

If I look straight ahead I see the jungle and the Buddhist temples glistening in the sun, it cause a feeling of contentment and relaxation I seldom find at home in Tokyo.

Soon three o’clock rolls around and it is time for the days real training. Today it is busy and there are more than twenty people at the camp warming up and getting ready fir their run, I choose not to run a second time today and instead head straight to skipping. We skip for about twenty to thirty minutes; Johan still a little embarrassed about his little indiscretion is skipping off to the side. It probably doesn’t help that we tell everyone we see about what happened.

From skipping it is time to stretch out, some of us head to the main ring we wai, as a sign of respect, and then bound over the ropes to stretch out. It takes me about ten minutes to feel loose in my hips. Now is time to shadow box, at this point there are fewer people skipping and I take my place in the mirror and start shadow boxing.

Around me everyone seems to be working different things. Some of the Thais have a rubber cord clenched in their mouth’s attached to twenty pound weights doing neck raises, while one of the Thai’s does crunches on the bench as a ten year old who will start training soon slams a Thai pad down on the older fighters stomach with every crunch.

Working the bag

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From: samboboy
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 01:34 PM

After shadow boxing I head to work the bag for about three rounds when my turn in the ring comes up. For the next four rounds I am worked to death, punch-elbow-kick-kick, punch-elbow-kick-kick. Push-kick-right kick-leg shield block-kick. I am dead when it is over I cannot lift my leg. Time to grab some water and recoup. Taking about a five-minute break I sit down on a bench and try to catch my breath.

The sun is setting now over Doi Suthep Mountain and the sky had turned a purplish red. Everyone is starting to relax a bit and wind down, some people are off sparring in the ring while others sit and talk to each other. Pretty soon I started hearing the familiar cries of “wayyyoh” and “lao lao lao” (which means faster) coming from the ring. I stroll over to see what is happening. There is a crowd gathered now I know why. Chun the northern Thai champion all 5’3 of him and the much larger coach Sak are going at it and sparring. Chun keeps coming in with devastating leg kicks and peppering Sak with punches. Sak a former Lumpini champion counters with knees and easily throws the diminutive Chun. The crowd is cheering Chun and Sak on, everyone is smiling and laughing and having a great time. Chun laughs during the entire match and Sak has a silly grin planted on his face. Time to stop training. Their epic battle over we head back to change into our clothes and wash up in the cold water out door shower. Some of the farang who aren’t regulars drift off. The core group is left we head out again to grab some food and make fun of Johan again.

Chun is in the middle
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From: samboboy
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 01:49 PM

My fingers are tired I will try to add to this later today.

Note some of these photo's come from the Lanna Muay Thai website, and are not taken by either myself or the official "getting kicked in the head" photographer Mike.

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From: Gideon
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 01:57 PM

This is the Coolest post!

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From: Stickgrappler
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 01:58 PM

Marc,

Thank you. Also thanks to David Ross for starting this.

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From: Boolai
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 02:01 PM

This is the best Post I 've read yet. Too Bad IKfmdc ruined it. Trying to change the subject to San Chou.

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From: sifu michael
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 02:06 PM

Boolai...hey, don't get nasty. Let's just enjoy the post, OK? Lkfmdc wasn't changing the subject, he was drawing a parallel that he found interesting. This is quickly turning into one of my favorite posts of all time!

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From: samboboy
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 02:23 PM

After dinner we head back to the camp tonight there will be some fights and two of our boys are fighting. We gather at about seven o’clock and wait for everyone to show up. By seven thirty there are about fifteen of us who will be going to the fights. Tonight’s fights are taking place in a small fair about an hour out of town. Some of us pile into the back of pickup trucks and others get in cars or motorcycles. Tonight I am get a lift with Tom on his Honda CBR. Following one of our coaches Tawin we head out to the fights.

Zooming down the unlit Thai highway at 80 miles per her we make pretty good time. We find the city we are looking for only problem is no one knows where the actually fair is. Making our way down some side roads we soon find ourselves in between rice paddies, and driving seemingly endlessly in circles, there is no sign of a life anywhere let alone a fight venue. Eventually we see signs of life in the distance we see lights. We head towards the light just like that creepy kid in poltergeist.

Soon we are at the venue, in the middle of nowhere a ring has been set up and there are crowds of people yelling “Farang!” as they see the foreigners arrive. There are some stalls selling fried noodles and skewered meats. We work our way in to say hello to the promoter and friends who arrived before us. Everyone is smiling and happy, some drunk Thais men are trying to teach me muay Thai and one particularly drunk Thai is chastising Tom for losing his last fight, turns out the drunk lost money on a bet, Tom pawns him off on me and I get to see the drunks technique for the next ten minutes.

While this is going on the fighters are getting rubbed down with boxing liniment and getting last minute massages, monks from the local temple are everywhere, one of the fighters from our camp recognizes a fellow boxer who is now a monk, he goes over to say hello. Meanwhile Bruce and I have found a stand selling skewered dog, at 6 cents for stick of dog meat how can you go wrong, we buy ten sticks and head off with our bounty in tow. The dog tastes like, well, dog. Not the most tender meat in the world but it is good none the less we spend the next minute feeding unsuspecting fellow foreigners dog and watching their expression as we tell them they are chewing on some Lassie.

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From: JKING
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 02:23 PM

NICE!

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From: Slowshot
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 02:25 PM

same here

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From: samboboy
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 02:55 PM

The fights begin we crowd around the ring. Chun’s little brother is fighting, first Tawin says a small prayer for the fighters safety this is an important part of the ritual, they are forehead to forehead, hands clasped, with heads bowed, they are in their own little world for a few seconds. The prayer finished. The fighter makes his way to the ring today we are in the red corner all of us gather to cheer his entrance.

Wearing the traditional Mong Kong a special headpiece he enters the ring, he circles the ring counter clockwise holding onto the ropes at each corner (representing the cardinal directions) he stops and touches the turnbuckles three times bowing his head as he does this. The three bows represent respect for the Buddha, his teachings, and the monkhood. He makes his way around the ring. Back at the red corner he steps to the middle of the ring and gets on his knee’s he begins the Ram Muay the ceremonial dance that starts every Muay Thai match. The dance is symbolic of stories of the ancient hindu Veda’s or represent what he will do in the fight. This particular Ram Muay represents a deer hunt, the movements are slow and graceful the fighter seems to sway peacefully as he gathers his thoughts and prepares for the fight.

The Ram Muay finished he returns to his corner, Tawin gives him some last minute instructions removes the Mong Kong says a last minute prayer and the fighters head to meet in the middle of the ring. Thai matches start of slow almost scripted normally there is a gentle foot push aimed at the gut followed up with a few slow leg kicks. Muay Thai hurts, the fighters know this they let their adrenalin and endorphins build so they will feel less pain. As the round goes on the tempo picks up, as they fight the traditional Thai fighting music is being played by live musicians. The music sets the pace, as the tempo increases the fighters speed it up, and if the fighters are slowing down the musicians play faster to try to liven the fighters up.

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From: samboboy
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 03:00 PM

*if you are reading this give me a sign. I have been writing solidly for the past three hours, this is more than I normally write in a year I just want to know people are enjoying it*

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From: SHOOTER
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 03:02 PM

enjoying it very much....thanks for sharing your experiences.

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From: hubris
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 03:08 PM

Don't stop now :) Great stuff

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From: whaledog
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 03:11 PM

I've been reading all along.

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From: samboboy
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 03:13 PM

By the second round the fighters are throwing bombs at each other leg kick followed by head kick, one after an hour seemingly oblivious to the pain of taking a full shot on the bare shin. Our fighter seems to be getting the worse of it, he is smaller and unable to get in close enough to land truly effective kick. Then out of nowhere he grabs the other fighters right wrist with his right hand and pulls in down at the same time he pulls the arm down leaving the right side of his opponents head completely open, it is the moment he has been looking for. He lets a beautiful left head kick go which catches his opponent flush on the face. The opponent drops, the ref steps in, and the crowd goes nuts. The gamblers on the edge of the ring are betting like crazy now the odds have turned in our favor. His opponent pulls himself up. The fight has become a completely different thing than it was only two minutes ago. Our fighter becomes the aggressor hunting the opponent across the ring. The bell rings.

Our fighter in the corner is getting advice from Tawin and Den his other cornerman. Tawin mimes what has to be done, as Den wipes the fighter down with a towel there is blood on the towel a quick search reveals a cut on the scalp from a kick. The cut is open and a few more hits and there is the risk of blood getting into his eyes or the fight being stopped. Den smears vasoline into the cut just as the bell rings sounding the start of round three.

Seemingly out of the blue our fighter launches a flying knee at his opponent who never saw it coming.

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From: MJBrack
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 03:23 PM

This thread RULES!

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From: samboboy
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 03:26 PM

The knee lands squarely into the middle of the opponent’s chest, knocking him into the ropes. Chun brother comes in and launches a barrage of elbows the likes of which I have never seen before and never seen since. In all about thirty elbows from every conceivable angle. Over hand right elbows followed by straight elbows, forearm elbow blows, flying elbows, his elbows becoming bloodier with every hit. His opponent crumples under the shear ferocity of his attack; the ref runs in and stops the carnage. Chun’s brother has won. The camp’s entourage goes nuts, the audience goes nuts, we are all cheering and hollering. Chun’s brother calmly hugs his opponent they are both smiling, as the tradition they walk to each other’s corner to drink water. Den hands water to the beaten fighter and wash the blood off his face; across the ring his opponent’s corner is congratulating Chun’s brother. I just watch in awe and eat my dog on a stick.

It is without a doubt the greatest fight you will ever see thirteen-year-old boys have.

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From: Grapple Man
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 03:32 PM

That rules! "eating some Lassie", hahahahahaha!

They don't eat cats, do they??

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From: Tony Bananas
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 03:32 PM

Marc,

these are truly awesome posts. thank you very much for posting them.

taran.

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From: samboboy
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 03:35 PM

Kem's Ram Muay

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From: wanderer
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 03:36 PM

fascinating, samboboy....i have trained a little with coban at the ultimate gym and am in absolute awe of his toughness and skill, which no doubt is plentiful in thailand.

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From: samboboy
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 03:37 PM

Den an excellent Boxer, and great coach

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From: iwantmynhb
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 03:41 PM

Samboboy,

Never before has sitting behind my computer felt like being in a foreign land.

Thank you for sharing this with us.

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From: samboboy
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 03:42 PM

Well there it is my Muay Thai opus I hope you enjoyed it. I may respost it later in it's own thread in it's entirety. Damn that took a long time to write out!

Thanks to all the people at Kietbusaba and the people whos photo's I used whom I gave no credit to whatsoever.

Marc

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From: whaledog
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 03:43 PM

Thanks for the posts samboboy!

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From: samboboy
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 03:50 PM

Just noticed how atrocious my spelling is, hmm maybe I got kicked in the head one time too many.

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From: Stickgrappler
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 03:52 PM

Marc,

With your permission, I will archive this thread to my site:

http://go.to/stickgrappler

in the MT section and in the Unofficial UG forum archives section.

Thank you for your time in sharing this.

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From: CWolvie
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 03:52 PM

samboboy, one word. WOW! You make me want to goto thailand now.

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From: monte moore
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 03:57 PM

This is a sublime post. In all my time on this forum, this is ,by far, one of the best. Thank you very much. Monte Moore

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From: alphafemale
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 03:57 PM

This was an awesome post, Samboboy....

hey, do you know Walter Michalowski? he was training in Thailand ( forget the camp ) the month of February...

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From: samboboy
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 04:03 PM

stickgrappler check your email if you want you can post the entire thread but I am also sending you a gramatically correct and spellchecked version.

Marc

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From: Stickgrappler
Date: 05-Apr-00 | 04:09 PM

Marc,

Thank you once again. Great work!

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