Phil Dunlap's Kachin System of Burmese Groundfighting posts to the Underground forum

THIS IS NOT THE COMPLETE EDITED VERSION. THAT WILL COME WHEN THERE IS CLOSURE TO THIS THREAD.

If you have any questions, please email Phil Dunlap at: afspd@hotmail.com. He has a free vid (well, cost of vid and postage is close to free :-) available from Underground forum member, Armbar (Jason) and his site is: http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Classroom/6029/index.html

Kachin System of Burmese Groundfighting
From: Phil Dunlap

This one is being reposted because I want people to know what to expect concerning the upcoming seminar and since the tape has been available on Planet NHB several people have contacted me as to what is Kachin Grappling and I told them I would post a thread here. Doing my bit to increase membership

Phil

excerpt from an email I wrote

Please remember I have limited exposure to your style so please remember that I am not an expert when I make comparasins between the styles.

I will briefly describe what we do and our philosaphy and let you make the comparasin. The Kachin state is in the mountainous jungle region of Northern Burma.The Kachin's are a fierce warlike but friendly people they are an ethnic group comprising pprox 4% of the burmese population. Due to the geographic location and the difficulty traveling the area they have always been relativly independent and view their state as its own country and do not want to be a part of greater burma. The Kachin's have their own language but no written language just verbal. Prior to world war2 and the influx of christianity they were animists. They were also on of the last groups in that area of south east asia to give up head hunting. They can tend to hold a grudge as to this day the only thing some hate worse than the British is the Japanese. I got the definite feeling that if they could attack Japan WW2 still might not be over. That was kind of freaky but than again my grandfather never did really make peace with the Japanese either.

Our focus is combat as in the application of technique on a trained and resisting opponent. I was taught that the forms were a way to record movements and were like shadowboxing something you practsed when you did not have a training partner. I teach my guys techniques, have them drill till there ready to die and their is a lot of sparring and hittin pads. We do a lot of grappling, stand up sparring, and NHB sparring . We also spend a lot of time on biting and gouging techniques.

The Kachins have a very clannish society and being animists they tend to name things after animals and nature.The animal styles are ways they described human attributes and personality. The animals were just parts of a much greater whole. the animals were taught to non-family and the family of the lineage holder learned an overall system making it possible to exploit almost preproramed weaknesses

One thing I forgot to put in my earlier post is that as with many Martial Arts much of the information I have is oral history. I have attempted to confirm the historical info I have but it can be difficult to confirm burmese history in general and Kachin history in particular because the Kachin's had no formal written language. So I will stay away from historical stories here.

The animal systems in Kachin martial arts as mentioned earlier are paterned after human attributes both physical and mental. It is believed that fighting must fit the individual nature and not that the individual fitting the system. For example the bull system is for a big strong agressive person who is likes to dish out punishment and does not mind recieving it he will spend the bulk of his time if possible at a distance. The boar is a smaller quicker version of the bull who will attempt to get inside and work from clinching range. Basic Burmese Boxing (similar to the Thai style) comes from the Bull and Boar sets. The groundfighting in these sets are more an attempt to pin the enemy to the ground to strike. The takedown bodyweight drives through the opponents legs and torso along with twisting and lifting slams. There are several snake systems wich are very supple and quick and relaxed, for example the python subset is grappling intensive with the striking goal being to stun the enemy and take him to the ground and finish him withe the takedowns being mostly weight bearing some of the other systems are several based on cats and birds of prey, the scorpian system stressing pressure points, their is also a monk system (internal) and even a deer system who's primary objective is escape.

Burmese arts tend to be very aggressive combat style arts. While the are adaptable for ring style sport their basis is the concept of life and death struggle. They include techniques for stalking and attacking from behind ,biting and other techniques that would not apply to the sport arena. But the sport arena is also encouraged as it allows the practicioner the oppurtunity to use techniques at full speed and to get used to the conditioning required for combat and prepares the practitioner for the stress and punishment one needs to deal with.

Naban or groundfighting--- While all the animals contain grappling techniques some are more grappling intensive than others while the bull and boar subset will try to pin the enemy to the ground and strike, attempt weight bearing ballistic submissions on the way to the ground or stomp a fallen opponent the snake especially the python take the opponent to the ground and work for the submission the bird sets mantle and shin ride the enemy either striking or going for the submission.

Standup fighting as with grappling each animal has its own strategy in wich certain techniques almost become a calling card from the powerful punches and kicks of the bull, the slashing elbows ,knees and headbutts of the boar the single and double knuckle punches of the cobra and viper,the gouging and poking of the scorpion etc.

Each animal becomes a martial art in its own right with its own conditioning and training exercizes weapons,etc. The practitioner trains for about 5 years in basic Burmese Boxing once again similar to old style Thai boxing and may compete in bare knuckle matches, after proving himself the student then trains an animal for the rest of his career.

While each animal is a system unto itself they each are a part of a much greater whole. The lineage holder's family is trained in the overall system and learns the underlying concepts of each and is thus able to dothings like fusing the grappling techniques and weight of the python and the mantling of the eagle for much better control over a mantled body part. In a clannish tribe society this insures that the family line of the lineage holder will be able to defeat all others in the group.

Now to the history and societal part please remember some is oral history. The Kachin systems are one of 4 lineages I am aware of. There are 2 in the US myself and the ABA under DR Gyi and 2 still in Burma. My grandfather became a lineage holder through the end of the old holders family line prior to WW2 it is a very long and complicated story ,Irish accupunturist who grew up in China and was avoiding the English in Burma, but this and a dime manage to entitle me to a phoe call. Unfortunatly burma has always been extremely factious with much distrust so there was very litle sharing among ethnic groups of their systems. This was bad enough and then there wass the attempt to eraducate the Burmese arts by the British followed by an attempt to rebuild it and controll it by the British supervised Ghurka riflles. Fortunatly the Kachin state is extremely difficult to get to much less live in and this kept it pretty much autonomous. The final catastrophe for the arts in Burma was WW2 when many of the greatest Bando practitioners died. Burma is now a country with no infrastructure a a terrible standard of life. My first trip there I was deeply saddened by the state of the fighting arts in Burma.

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It is now been Myanamr. The SLORC government cracked down on the people and the country is embroiled in unrest. The people of both the Kachin and Karen state both have their own armed groups and wish to be autonomous as stated in the countries constitution. There are many ethnic groups and rivalries in Burma.

Naban or Grappling

In the Kachin systems there really is not a concept of grappling only as grappling was viewed as just a part of fighting. Our grappling is very much about control. You always want enough control that when in a bad position you can not be hit and when in a good position you can Fouling tactics such as biting and gouging are always taken into consideration simply because they are always an option and must be protected against and set up to be used.

One of the most important aspects is the neutralization of bad positions as in the ability to stop a person from submitting or striking you from the mount. If you can stop the guy from hurting you it is believed that you will not lose if need be you would turn it int a war of attrition. Each dominat position will have a coresponding nuetralization and the first step is learning to maintain basic positions ,Nuetralizing them, and escaping them at higher levels the submission itself becomes the position.

Body seams con't

Once it is understood that in the Kachin Systems Groundwork is based upon control than understanding the positions and nuetralizations becomes increasingly easy. Just as our bottom ride is slightly different and the nuetralization different than other grappling stylles our side positions are slightly different. we want to control the opponent first than finish him we do not move for the sake of moving hoping our opponent makes a mistake we move to set a sub or to better strike.

Our side ride similar to side mount the way it differs is that while keeping theknees foward one pinching the opponents hip the other the shoulder our elbows are placed pinching the neck and hip the forhead on the ground hands open palms on ground extending outward from the elbows. Weight should be on his chest the goal is to make it difficult to breath and move. The other side positions are head ride similar to scarf but both elbows on opposite side of opponents body from hip ie do not put in headlock, leg over head (a miserable position for person on the bottom) and leg ride similar to sash.

Next I will move on to seams for submission

The car aerial

for the people who have emailed concerning using the arial as a weopon. In a strret encounter I have used it 2 ways the first was snapping several off cars in a parking lot because the other person had a knife Holding them together used as if they were a stick.

The second is my favorite the Kachins have a tendency to use heavy solid sticks ane foward weighted blades wich force you to develope a strong snapping action with your wrist with a little practice you can take an aerial and using it with a whiplike action in the wrist can actualyy peel the skin off especially in the facial area.

I am a freak for taking weopon training and adapting it to every day items.

pitbul

Before I go into escaping the guard I want the people to try something. From the nutralized position take your left hand and feed it through his knee let him try the triangle choke if you keep the abs contracted while pinching your knees up and pinching the right elbow to your right knee he should not be able to get it because you are cntrolling his hips and just leaning your left shoulder should pass his leg. This is not a technique but a way of understanding how the nuetralization works and helps you pass will go to techniques tomorrow.

The seams and how they begin to apply to submission in the Kachin system. On a very basic level we will first look at a choke and how seams apply.

The choke is a wonderful weapon as it not only uses the seam for submision but also can be a major seam for control so you are able to submit while controlling. The choke I will go over is our version of the triangle choke from the bottom or guard position. The reason I am picking this one is 2 fold everyone knows it and it is on the tape.

A choke is nothing more than the sealing off and compression of a seam. The reason the sealing of the neck works is simply by shutting off blood flow to the brain. In our version of the triangle as we set it up we try to get off to the side of the opponent and do not stay right unnder him as your leg goes over his head you spin out while lifting yourselef up using the leg on his neck and driving that heel back toward the same hamstring. He should be feeling as if a freight train just ran accross his neck and you should be almost parralell to his shouders. Now extend the other leg toward the cieling and lock in the triangle . Both feet tuck back to the but while pinching the knees together while curling into a tight ball and NOT extending away. If don properly you will not have to pull the arm accross or head down.

This is the Basic version of our triangle. I do not know if I described it well and I have a feeling questions are on the way.

Thought some might be interested in a little info on the kachin's from a piece on the tribes in Burma

HISTORY IN GENERAL

"The Kachins are not really Kachin, for the name was given to them by the Burmese to refer to the wilder people of the hills and denotes "savage" or "wild man". The Kachins themselves use the term Jinghpaw (Chinhpaw or Singpho) which most commentators translate simply as "man", although it is actually of Tibetan origin, being derived from the Tibetan word , sin-po, meaning cannibal.

The Kachins are the Tartars from the region south of the Great Gobi Desert in Mongolia (Majoi Shingra Bum), from where they migrated south in separate tribes, possibly at long intervals. Before the 13th century, they can be traced fighting with the Shans on the hills drained by the upper waters of the Ayeyarwady River. As the Shan Kingdom broke up, the Kachins established themselves further south and southeast, building their villages on the hills, and taking tolls and slaves from conquered and other tribes in the valleys below. In the 19th century, they were still spreading south into the Shan State as far as Kyaingetong. The arrival of the British stopped their further progress.

They could no longer acquire new territories by conquest nor could they raid, rob or levy on the lowlands. They had to live in peace with all and do honest work for their living. This is the hard school in which they had been placed.

Kachin tradition states that their ancestral home was the Majoi Shingra Bum, or Naturally Plat Mountain". The exact location is unknown, but a number of authors suggest eastern Tibet or farther to the northeast.

Four great rivers are mentioned in these ancient traditions: the Mali Hka (Irrawaddy), the N'Mai Hka (east fork of the Irrawaddy), the N-Shawn Hka (probably the Dihing of Assam), and the Hpunggawn Hka (mostlikely the Brahmaputara).

About three or four hundred years ago, the Kachins were beginning to move through the area north of the Hkamti Plain in which Putao now is located.

The Jinghpaws moved westward and southward, a few (the singphos) settling down at the eastern end of the Assam Plain, while the main body moved into and through the Hukawng Valley. All the way they subdued or drove out the Shans who were there ahead of them. When they reached the Mogaung area, they encountered stronger resistance from both Shans and Burmese, forcing the Jinghpaws to turn east. They crossed the Irrawady north of present Myitkyina and expanded into the hilly area between that river and Salween. Further migration southwards brought them into the Bhamo District and the northern part of the Shan State.

Kachin Migration needs to viewed in the context of movements of other peoples through this mountainous area where Tibet, Yunnan, Burma, and India meet, a region known to the airmen of World War II as "the Hump."

Previous to the Kachins, a number of other groups were believed passed through this area on their way south.

Karens have a tradition that they passed near Bhamo on their way to Lower Burma.

Lisus and Lahus had their origins in or near Tibet. Lisu is decidedly ambiguous linguistically. They are closer to the Lolo groups of languages than to the Jinghpaw. In other aspects of culture as well, the Lisus evidence greater dissimilarities from the Jinghpaws than do any of the groups. The fact that the Lisus migrated to Burma more recently than the other tribes contributed to the impression that they are different.

Naga tribes of Burma northwest of the Hukawng Valley state that they are the descendants of the older brother.

Thought some of you may be interested this is taken from the history of american special forces. The Kachin where one of the first indiginous people to help american special forces. I post this in tribute to the brave men both indiginous to their regions and americans who fought for their beliefs they are the worlds true heroes.

Shadow Warriors: The OSS

The Office of Strategic Services was the product of William Donovan, an imposing man-mountain of a visionary whose propensity for freewheeling activity earned him the nickname of "Wild Bill." Donovan was tough and smart, a veteran of World War I who received the Medal of Honor for heroism on the Western Front in October 1918, and who made a fortune as a Wall Street lawyer during the Twenties and Thirties. When World War II finally erupted in Europe and threatened to engulf the United States, Donovan was able to convince President Franklin D. Roosevelt that a new type of organization would have to be formed, one that would collect intelligence and wage secret operations behind enemy lines.

In 1941, President Roosevelt directed Donovan to form this agency, called the Coordinator of Intelligence (COI), and Donovan, who had been a civilian since World War I, was made a colonel. COI blossomed quickly, forming operational sites in England, North Africa, India, Burma and China. In 1942, the agency was renamed the OSS and Donovan became a major general. The primary operation of the OSS in Europe was called the Jedburgh mission. It consisted of dropping three-man teams into France, Belgium and Holland, where they trained partisan resistance movements and conducted guerrilla operations against the Germans in preparation for the D-Day invasion. Other OSS operations took place in Asia, most spectacularly in Burma, where OSS Detachment 101 organized 11,000 Kachin tribesmen into a force that eventually killed 10,000 Japanese at a loss of only 206 of its own.

After the war, President Harry S. Truman disbanded the OSS, but not before it had left a legacy still felt today. From its intelligence operations came the nucleus of men and techniques that would give birth to the Central Intelligence Agency on September 18, 1947. (Indeed, the first directors of the CIA were veterans of the OSS.) From its guerrilla operations came the nucleus of men and techniques that would give birth to the Special Forces in June 1952.

As to doing a video series I have been approached but truthfully their is only one project I may be interested in due to my respect for the individual that approached me and his goals and motives for it.

I had been approached by TRS and their ad copy scared the hell out of me those guys are unbelievable.

There are several problems I have with doing a video the first being I think I am unworthy as I have seen good and do not feel I am there yet ( sometimes I feel it will take more than my lifetime). I feel like a dork when I see myself on video and am not comfortable in front of a camera. And last is I am very uncomfortable selling the system it is too important to me.

The reason I would consider it is to expose people to it, preserve it after I am gone and as tribute to those great warriors who gave so much to formulate the knowledge I was lucky enough to recieve due to an accident of nature.

I no more believe the Burmese or Kachin's are the only ones who practiced fighting in all ranges than I can fly. No one has a monopoly on the sun the air or the earth. I think one of the reasons the sytem was kept in tact and is the way it is is because of the isolation of the region the kachins come from, the terrain and the fact that the faught both in battle in jungles and no rule one on one for sport. one or the reasons for the fighting in a phone booth in my opinion is not just the one on one fighting but also in battle in a mountainous jungle the spacial relationships and footing is unique. Another reason is because when my grandfather emigrated his experiance with the english and during the war with the Japanes heavily influenced his beliefs about the need for toughness and the willingness to be brutal. He never seemed to go through the mellowing process that comes with age.

Seams in the Kachin grappling systems.

The control aspects of grappling are built around the understanding of the bodies seams and that as you control seams you control his movement. Seams are basiacally any where the body flexes or folds. The seams are divided into major, minor and support. The major seams being the neck,shoulders,waist,and hip sockets. The minor are all other joints.. The support are the muscle/tendon tendon connections.

Control in the beginning is taught as the control of major seams . Positions in the beginning are taught as ways of dividing the body and riding major seams neutralization is learning to hang from his seams when he is riding yours.

When I personally teach I am guilty of borrowing words from anything that helps me show my point all positions were originally refered to rides such as the guard is bottom ride but I borrow the guard because everyone knows what it is. North sout is top ride the mount is ride scarf is head ride etc.

lemon

The term I used was probably banshay player a generic term for weapons each animal has its own weapons and techniques for use.

The aerial is the deer form you get hit by a car and are really pissed so you beat the driver with the aerial....

Just kidding it is an improvised weapon I have used in real life conflict with very good results. I think I like it so much because in certain subsets you use an almost whip like action to strike it combined with the wrist action needed for the Kukri and the Dha

NFors

Thanks for the compliments and once again thanks to everyone duping the video I could never have gotten them all out without your help.

The thing about the mass producing of video as I stated above is something I will never really feel quite right about. I really enjoy doing the free seminars as I meet some really great and open minded people and have always believed in showing by feel. Thevideo for the seminar had not been my idea one of the guys coming had been interested in taping it to help review the tape. I have always been a little skeptical of the use of video as a teaching tool.

Left off with the basic concept involving seams. The basic concept of major seams is taught at first through positioning. I will use the bottom ride and the nuetralization followed by the jaw lock to illistrate the concept those who have seen the seminar tape or were there will have an easier time understanding as I have a rough time putting the physical into written word.

First we consider the bottom ride to be the domminent of the 2 positions( the bottom ride is similar to the bjj closed guard but with some key differences). Very important when wrapping legs around your opponents waist is to hang from your heels and not squeeze at all with your knees this way as opposed to his weight being on you yo are lifting your hips from the ground and riding him. Also arm positioning becomes very important as you want to keep him down,stop him from escaping,and mount an offense without allowing him to. Both arms underhhok his shoulders and one hand slides up to his face it should be between your head and his so that he can not bite or head butt your other arm while underhooking moniters the tricep of that arm to stuff attempts to strike.

The first think we teach from there is to drive the hand between the heads down to the ground placing the palm on the floor bumping the same hip out and placing the top of the head on the floor a going out the back door from here you generally have his arm or a choke it is also a great place to strike from as he can not hit you back.

Now what we do to attempt to nuetralize and attack the bottom ride/guard position and why are arm position is where it is. When we Nuetralize this position the goal is first to stop his ability to move and control his torso. You are on top of him with his legs wrapped around your waist. You underhook his shoulders and put your knees on the floor outside his hips pulling from your abdomen you pinch your knees and elbows togetthr pinching them slightly inward toward the opponnt at the same time. When done properley it is extremely difficult to move for the person on the bottom . This is where we do our esapes and also sat up submisions.

If the person on the bottom places your head on his chest or does not control your head just put you nose on his sternum and whilebringing you weight foward and up bring the top of your head to his jaw line continue to crunch your abs while lifting your hips slightlly and shifting your weight onto his jaw next royour nose down neck as if you wanted to look underneath the jaw while kepping your wieght on your head/his face. If he does not tap and you are doing right you will hear a nice cracking sound.

Several people have asked that I either go into more depth or clarify on body seams and their relation to positioning in the Kachin groundfighting systems. When doing this it really need to be stressed that the major concept is that of control as not only are we thinking in term of grappling but also of striking. when striking comes into play the importance of control becomes even more important.

Positions are viewed from the perspective of superior and and its corresponding inferior position. Superior positions are viewed as riding and give such control so as to be able to launch an offense while the opponent is unable to. The the peron in the inferior position will attempt to nuetralize and control the person in the supperior position so as to nullify his offense the nuetralization is viewed as hanging. So when we move on the concepts on positioning are viewed from the perspective of either riding if superior or hanging in inferior.

Positions at higher levels are almost limitless ones the concepts are understood. We will start with the base package showing positions nuetralizations and then escapes subs and setups and how the seams and control apply to each.

The starting positions are Ride (Similar to mount) Top Ride (Similar to North/south) bottom ride (Similar to guard) side ride (Similar to mount) head ride (Similar to scarf ) leg ride (Similar to sash) and leg over head.

I will define each position and cover their neutralizations and basic escapes before going over basic subs from each. While I am doing it I will attempt to describe the control aspects involved from each area.

Passing the gaurd in responce to bulldog s question. Now that anyone interested has had a chance to play with the nuetralization from the guard and the jawlock after it I will go over an easy pass to mount if the jaw lock does not work. start into the jaw lock as described in that description if he maanages to avoid the sub than this pass should be there unless you have done something wrong. As youu are underhhooking his shoulders and putting weight on your head to avoid the pressure he needs to push you awa When he starts to keeping weight on the opposite leg slide your knne between his ass and your abdominal cavity while crunching your abs and rolling your back. Drop your hips back toward the ground this should pop your knne through and split their guard . Keeping your weight down and foward roll your hip outwar bringing your knee through and to the groround over his hip your shin should be putting pressure on his hip pinning him to the ground now bring your other leg through the other side and take moount. Hope that is clear.

My personal preference while doing this is to stay with the first shin on the hip surfing it and attack his other leg.

When thinking about passing the guard in the Kachin system the nuetralization is very important. The basic concept involved is controling the hip and shoulder girdle. I understand that we differ from Bjj in that we do not sit up the way they do I think they call it getting posture. We avoid our opponents sub attempts through cutting off his ability to move we will go over some basic passes some may be similar to bjj but their will be some major differences will start going over the concepts tommorrow.

Will cover in the order listed First we will cover Mount and the nuetralization if on the bottom will cover the position then nutralizarion than go to next position.

In Kachin groundfighting it is important toe remember that your riding him. The mount is used to strike and or setup the sub your knees to each side of hips the feet should be on the floor toes tucked under to aid in movement Your hips sould be rolled foward with the inside of yourheels pinching to the floor and slightly inwaard. The top of your chest at the collerbone should be pushing his head into the ground with your diapram over his lower chest and your abdoman on his diaphragm. In this position keeping your weight down you should be able to make it difficult foer him to breath by controlling his breath with yours. He should have to work for every inch of movement and you should seem to weigh a thousand lbs.

The seams being controlled are six majors when done properly. Neck each shoulder each hip and the waist remember the more seams controlled especially the majors the stronger the position. For clarification control of a major outweighs control of a minor and a minor outweighs a support. This is the basic mount we teach first as our variations on mount are built from this .This is an excellant position to open offense from while wearing your opponent out.

Next Up neutralizing the Mount

The nuetralization of the mount tis one is gonna be tough it is a feeling and pressure thing.

First have your opponent mount you. You must keep in mind while doing this that you are not using muscle to pull him down but are using your bodies structure and leverage to hang from him. also remember this is designed to make it harder for him to move and also to gat a sub or strike.

He is mounted on you the first thing to do is slide the arm on the side your head is on under his armpit and accross his upper back to his neck on the oppisite side almost curling your finger as if trying to grab the trap muscle. Now this is very important you are trapping yourself to him not pulling do not hang from the hand but hang from the elbow and reinforce with the forearm if he sits up you should seam as if you are glued to his chest.

The side mount

The basic side mount is designed once again to ride your opponent and make it difficult for him to move. Remember you are riding him using your body to manipulate what he does.

The position is one knee at his hip the othe knee in his armpit one elbow to the opposite hip and then the other elbow to the neck You should be on all fours on elbow and knees. Your knees and elbows will pinch together your toes will be bottom down making movement easier Forearm and palms extending straight out palms down keep your forehead on the ground.

Now the weight distribution if you do this right he will feel like he has a small truck on his chest and diaphram. You diaphram should be over his chest with your weight down on him relax into him do not drive down remember you are riding him as you fiil your lungs with air concentrate down into him.

This is our basic side Ride you are controlling hips waist shoulder and neck or 6 major seams.

Neutralization side mount

once again plaese remembrr the concept is hanging not hugging. He side mounts you and first cross your inner leg knee on hip and foot on ther knee trapping and keeping pressure on his hip. Now take your near arm and place it over his hip toward your knee once again hanging from the elbow and forearm. next take your opposite arm and run it under his chest and hook your hand under his armpit onto the lat muscle hang from your wrist once again crunch your abs and round your lower back . Now pick your head up onto his other armpit /lat area. If done properly and you hang everytime he moves you will move with him he will have no openings for strikes and can not isolate on a limb. You are hanging from hips ,waist and shoulder hanging from 5 major seams

the top ride the top ride is similar to north south except we instead of trying to get to the other side may opt to stay there and attemt the finish the position of the basic top ride is your chest on his shoulders and the diaphram on his face yourarms posting low and out fror your shoulders slightly foward palms down forearms touchinng the ground hips down abdomen expanded on your taoes with the weight foward on his head and shoulders once again increasing pressure with your breathing you use your hips legs and arms to maintain position while the weight rides the head and Shoulders. The weight on the head and shoulders makes it difficult to move for the person on the bottom and this is a good position for various submissions.

This position gives control of three major seams the neck and shoulders and can be extrmely uncomfortable especially on pavement

Neutralizing Top or North South

Once again please remember the energy is that of hanging your opponent takes top position you weave your arms through his armpits under his shoulders and clasp your hands togeter project toward the cieling upward and foward through the triceps your arms forming a V back down towards you you will actually be hanging from the flex in your elbows slide your head up and into his lat and shoulder while bumping onto the other hip this will releave some of the pressure cross your knee as if in the nuetralization for side ride. You should be relatively comfortable and can stuff strikes and he can not isolate for subs also as he moves you will be able to go with them.

In this neutralization you ride three major seams neck and both shoulders.

I am going to cover some striking on the ground from these positions along with fouling tactics such as biting and gouging. I want to cover the basic idea of these techniques before escapes and subs as they really help set up subs abd can finish themselves.

I was going to start with biting. The Kachin systems take biting to a level that it is almost an art upon itself. Biting has a huge impact in a fight or combat as there is a lot of blood, body parts can be removed, and the psychological ramification of being bitten. Many times the person who is bit will go it to shock if they realize something has been bitten off. The pain involved is viewed as secondary to produce a reaction and either set up a finish or achieve a better position. Biting certain areas can have potentially lethal effects.

Before I go on I want make sure this is appropriate here as I tend to go over board. This is going to be a description of when where and how to bite and illustrate potential reactions to the bite we will be viwing cannabalism as technique.

By the way I am a vegetarian but when I say bite I am talking opponent is a T-bone steak

Biting

Before I go over offensive bitting I was going to touch on the basic ideas and concepts of the bite. Remember this is in desciption of Kachin groundfighting so I will stick with the biting while on the ground. Several things that are very important and can be experimented with when defending the bite. The first is that at alltimes you must be maintaining contact with the neeck and head or have your body weight on hes jawline so he can not create the space to bite the other is if he does get his open mouth on you you must force the bodypart deeper into his mouth and at the same time exert pressure on the back of the skull so that you are forcing the skull foward toward the bodypart this way you are making it so that he can not close his mouth.

Biting will not necessarilly terminate the fight but will definatly elicit a responce the difference between defending the bite properly and not defending it can be huge. I am going to share info about two of my students who were bitten in fights.

The first guy came from a sport Bjj background and even when he trained his focus was always more straight sport based submission grappling and less self defense oriented he was a fairly good grappler. He got in a fight with a bigger stronger guy outside a bar in Jersey City and it was one of those stupid ego based fights. He did not like to consider biting or striking in his ground training and paid the price. this is from his and his girlfriends description He took his opponent down and was in guard reversed and got mount the opponent did not get off a strike that landed. Opponent rolled to stomach alex put the hoks in and went for rear naked his opponent bit his foream alex panicked and opponent started to gat up . He took the guy back down and got side ride now the guy turns into him and bites his abdomen really good now alex pops him a couple times and the guy rolls over again this time alex puts the hooks in and is more careful with the rear naked and chokes the guy unconscious and gets up leaving him there.

Because of alex's not wanting to train for real life he not only gets bit once but also a second time the bites did not end the fight but definatly created oppurtunities that the other guy could have capitalized on.

The next one is the story of a guy who is a cop and loves to train for reality. Pat is a persons worst nightmare.5'11" 250 lbs former powerlifter/bodybuilder probably the most useable strength of anyone I have ever met, guy has unreal endurance and the heart of a lion. He is making an arrest on a guy 6'0"tall and 210 or so and the guy is on crack .Pat tries to get the guy to go with him calmly and the guy attacks him . Pat takes him down right into a rear mount with the hooks in and starts to go for a sloppy rear naked thinking he just wants to control the guy and cuff him not hurt him. The guy starts to bite Pat's hand at the base of the thumb Pat immediatly counters the bite driving the hand further into the mouth and shifts into a neck crank the guy stops fighting and is cuffed and taken away.

By learning proper counters to the bite pat avoided a messy situation and by ignoring the bite alex has 2 really nice scars to show for it He still won wich is important but he paid a price. Both guys needed treatment for their bites but due to Pat countering his he sustained much less damage.

First thing to remember when biting is the idea you are going to have a warm salty taste in your mouthe and when biting something like the nose you may have a hunk of flesh in your mouth. It is important to visualize this when practicing so you do not panic when it happens. You also need to get over the psychological revulsion to biting

I genearally tell my students to spit anything that comes off at your opponent as it lets him know he lost a body part. If you have blood in your mouth spray it at him. You want to maximize the shock value of having bit him.

I was raised to blieve that biting was just another technique like a punch or kick so as I describe biting please remember that

Facial biting

The first area we will cover is the biting the face area and neck this is generaly the most devestating are of the body to bite for several reasons. The head and neck area give a tremendous amount of control, it is psychogically overwhelming due ti increasing fear, many nerve endings increasing pain, mor potential for severe damge.

The ears and nose are two of the easiesr body parts to remove as there is no bony structure to grind through. when biting this area it is very important not to panic and swallow if you have severed something as it is easy to choke on. From experiance I can vouch for the fact that when biting an ear the volume of blood is incredible, Ihave been told with the nose it is even worse.

Remember when having bit thes areas your opponent is at a srious disadvantage if he wished to continue the fight as he is bleeding profusly. Other than the typical revulsion and panic at the thought of having been bit the initial reaction to the bite will be to try and pull away from it and move his hands toward the area. when biting the nose you will have the added advantage of both affecting his breathing and vision.

Next up other facial areas

Biting of other facial and neck areas. Another good area of the face to bite is the flleshy areas on the side of the face over teeth (cheeks ) they can be bitten through and torn off this area is very good for biting as it has a lot of nerve endings and even pinching it hurts the general area to head for is near wher the upper and lower jaw come together bite through there and tear down toward the chin area and you shoud peel a nice strip. It will be one of the more painfull bites while also filling your opponents mouth with blood he will feel as though drowning. When you bite he will try to jerk the head up and away wich will actually help you pull the strip off.

Bithing the lips The lips will be less painful than the nose and cheek but more painfull than the ears The lips being bitten is very noticable to the person as you are going to be in the center of his face. Once again he will get a lot of blood in his mouth also of on the bottom he will be getting blood up his nose. He will struggle to push you away as opposed to pulling away himself this is a direct bite as the nose was bite through pull off spit out.

These bites are more pain , panic, damage , heavy bleeding bites and are not generally lethal your opponent will generally live they will take the fight out of them and will either finsh him or set up an easy finish. Other areas around the face can be bitten like eybrow area and under the eyes these bites are more difficult to execute and less damaging because the bony strcture make penetration to a good bite difficult.

Next up the neck area Many potentially lethal bites.

By the way remember this is not for practicing on your brother or buddies after a night of drinking

Remember in the immortal word of Idi Amin IF YA CANT BEAT EM EAT EM

time to play dracula

We will move down to the neck area. The neck is a great place to bite as there is a great deal of soft tissue. Unerneath the tissue is potentially lethal targets. your first target will be the esophagus/adams apple. it is important to open wide and bite down hard as the area is grisly once your teeth come together grind your teeth and tear back. Your opponent will curl his neck and chin into the bite. he will drown on his own blood. this was a potentially leathal bite. next is biting deeply into either the carotoid artery area. jugular vein area or the vegus nerve sheath all three will be potentially lethal the opponent will curl into the bite and attempt to push you away this is a deep grinding bit ripping back out when the teeth come together. If biting through the vegus nerve sheath opponent will start to vomit.With the above neck bites if the opponent does not die they will go into shock as the blood pressure plummets.

The other parts of the neck including the back of the neck are good targets as they get an exaggerated reaction due to all the nerve tissue. When biting the other neck areas opponent will pull away

targets of the upper torso the targets of the upper torso for biting are excellant for creating space setting up escapes and submissions. Remember you are not counting on these to be fight enders merely set ups for other things we will concentrate on the torso above the waistline.

Your first target of opportunity is the trap muscle area. this is an area for a deep bite your opponent is will curl into it and temporarily have difficulty using that arm excellent for setting arm submissions and escaping.very good from both bottom ride and mount. Next is the nipple wich causes extreme pain your opponent will both push you and try to wiggle away this may be the single best bite to set up escapes from the bottom and arm locks from the side. Next up is the pec muscle itself wich is less painful than the nipples and your opponent will try and push you away this becomes interchangable with the nipple positionally and for similar setups.

these are all deep bites and are excellant setups.

I just realized I am starting to go a little far into the biting aspect. would those following this thread prefer I stay with the biting aspect of Kachin grappling or go back to some other aspect and if some other aspect I am looking for what you would like to hear about.

From: Furyu

LOL Phil I just spoke to Ken and he is busy trying to figure out how he is going to explain the bite marks on his body to his grilfriend from his last private with you....damn man you love those guys more than me, you never hurt me as much as you hurt them:-( Just kidding ...damn I guess I just sealed my fate for the next time I'm up there huh?

Peace,Love and Brotherhood

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From: Phil Dunlap

Judah

I bet you taste just like chicken.

Ken and Mike came by the house for a private and asked the magic question about biting. Ask and ye shall recieve. I am not sure what freaked him more being bitten or the jaw locks when he bit me.

One my students had to explain my teeth marks on his pec to his girlfriend for real. By the way to anyone reading this I have practiced biting a lot and have enough experiance I can do it wiyhout breaking the skin so I do not take hunks out of the flesh of students

The prime biting areas of the Torso not described above are the belly/abdomen and the oblique (love handle areas) along with the delt, kidney and lat area. While other areas can be bitten these areas will generate the most movement as they are fleshy. These are painful bites to fleshy areas and are done for the purpose of getting the opponent to move and gice something up.

The belly area will generally get the person curling into the bite and attempting to wiggle away. The oblique area is one of the preferably bites as he winces into it and pushes you away this is great fdor arm bars and punching bite deep and pull.. The delt is good as it will cuase him discomfort and difficulty using that arm especially while being bitten

Kidney is excellent as the person will arche their back exposing the neck to chokes or strikes to the back of the neck this is a tearing bit and the after affects will be discomfort using hips and side to side movement.

The lats are a deep pulling bite ad get the person to wiggle and flair his arm exposing it and will also stop someone trying to stand up with you on their back

To add to the conversation for the people reading this when Phil goes over the biting it really can be an eye opening experience. Most people say things like oh I would bite him or gouge his eyes all I can say is this system has an almost scientific approach to biting.

I was rolling with him one time and he pt his mouth over my nose and blew air forcefully into me causing absolute panic. Until you experience some of this stuff you don't understand the effectiveness.

As to the grappling It has a very different spacial relationship than BJJ and I have always felt the positioning has a much heavier feel. When rolling with Phil he feels like a 300 lb snake wrapped around you. If he gets mount your breath is sucked away it is tough to describe.

Now on to the arms

Biting the arms can be extremely effective in a fighting situation as you will be damaging one of his potential weapons . Biting is one of your quickest and hardest to defend against weapons if someone grabs hold of you. a perfect example is take the lapel grab . I see people try and pull complex moves off to deal with this when the easist thing to do when someone really grabs and pulls you is trap the hand reach acrross at the elbow and take a cunk out of the forearm preferably along the radial nerve.

We are also very big on this when dealing with weapons clear control neutralize and if the person radial nerve is severed he can no longer use his weapon.

We will start though with potential targets of the arm. The Bicep and tricep are good target. along with the forearm both radial and ulnar side. The hands themselves are good targets. The fingers are excellant targets especially for setting something else up. If you want the straight armbar try sticking his fingers in your mouth clamp down on them and go for the armbar and see how easy you get it.

I will go in depth on these arm targets next as they are very easy to attack in grappling situations.

By the way to anyone following this thread someone gave me a copy of BlackBelt mag and it had an article co authored by Doc Gyi on the ABA version of the monk system. For those of you who do not remember my stating it Dr. Gyi is head of the other lineage of the Burmese arts I know of in this country.

It is a different system than I practice but if you are near an ABA school they are worth checking out they have a great deal to offer. I enjoyed the article it was about the evasive techniques of the monk system.

Reading it helped me understand the different philosophy between Buddhists and the animistic Kachin. The Kachin philosophy is not as kind and forgiving in their version of the Monk subset.

First up are the bicep and tricep areas. When biting the bicep the forearm will curl up as if making a muscle and he will attempt to pull it away the only problem being that the curling motion will make it difficult for him to pull away.

When you bite into the tricep he straightens it out and starts to dip his shoulder foward and pull with his trap.

When you bite the fleshy areas between the muscles he will attempt to yank or squirm the arm away.

Next up we will go over using these bites for a couple armbars to illustrate the concept

A good example of using a bite to set up the submission would be when you are going for the fig 4, entangled armbar, keylock, whatever you choose to call it. picture being in the side ride and you are having trouble finishing it your opponent is just too strong or slippery. Just put your face on the inside of his arm between the bicep and tricep. Now while continuing to attempt the sub bite his arm. Now very important is to bite and hold on he will freeze for a second and when he does complete the submission.

By the way when I mention finish the sub I am assuming break and dislocate as if you just bit him it probably is not a friendly roll or sport tourney.

Biting the lower aspects of the arm and hand.

The good targets of the fore arm area are the along both the radial and ulnar nerve areas easpecially the fleshy areas of the forearm. Both will interfear with his ability to use his hand the radial will cause him to curl the arm and wrist toward the bite while trying to pull away the ulanar will cause him to attempt to jerk the arm and wrist away ,biting the wrist area will force the hand open and give a very secure handle when attacking the elbow. I happen to like biting the lower arm as a reaction to being grabbed.

Now areas of the hand as targets. Remember as far as reality based groundfighting goes if he sticks a hand on your face bite it hold on and use it to set up your finish . Biting and holding the hand with your mouth is a excellant way to secure arm bars and manipulate the arm. Also it will seriously hamper his ability to hit you with that limb later in the course of the fight..

Something to remember is with the strength in your jaw for the biting motion a grinding biting action with the molars after the initial bite can get through the bones of the finger and remove them.

From: Willio
I just finished cutting and pasting the meat of this string into word and it is something like 8,000 words (on biting). Phil, you should write a book! Spread knowledge to those interested in the real deal.

Not to mention make some money, open a big school, and create a bunch of certified walking maniacs!

From: Phil

Organizing stuff into a book form would be my downfall I could not make it cohesive. With a 10th grade education I am intimidated by thr idea.

It is funny when you do it in small bursts it does not seem like much then you see it and think I wrote all that. I get a kick out of people wanting to read it because when asked about self defense my ideas seem to make people want to stay away from me.

It is funny you say open a big school one of my favorite things is watching how many people tell me I have been exactly what they were looking for and then after two weeks they realize that they really did not want what they are looking for.

People do not seem to want to train in the Kachin systems because basically the whole time you are in pain.

Will finish biting up with the lower body today. Am trying to figure out should I move onto striking on the ground or submissions or possibly weave them together

By the way when I mention finish the sub I am assuming break and dislocate as if you just bit him it probably is not a friendly roll or sport tourney.

Biting the lower aspects of the arm and hand.

The good targets of the fore arm area are the along both the radial and ulnar nerve areas easpecially the fleshy areas of the forearm. Both will interfear with his ability to use his hand the radial will cause him to curl the arm and wrist toward the bite while trying to pull away the ulanar will cause him to attempt to jerk the arm and wrist away ,biting the wrist area will force the hand open and give a very secure handle when attacking the elbow. I happen tolike biting the lower arm as a reaction to being grabbed.

Now areas of the hand as targets. remember as far as reality based groundfighting goes if he sticks a hand on your face bite it hold on and use it to set up your finish . Biting and holding the hand with your mouth is a excellant way to secure arm bars and manipulate the arm. Also it will seriously hamper his ability to hit you with that limb later in the course of the fight...

Something to remember is with the strength in your jaw for the biting motion a grinding biting action with the molars after the initial bite can get through the bones of the finger and remove them.

biting the legs hips and crotch area

First is the concept of biting the crotch. I know due to homophobia that this is a rough one for men get over it just another bodypart. When the fight is on the ground there can be many oppurtunities to sink your teeth into their crotch. Your targets are the penis, testicles and the fleshy areas of the pubic mound. Picture the North /South position and how this might change if your opponent was going to bite your crotch. Also side ride from the top visualize how easy it would be to sink your teeth into the crotch. have your partner use opun guard and see how east it is to grab the pants near the hips and dive face first biting into his groin.

The Penis and testicles can be bitten off and your opponent will curl up in a ball while you apply pressure. This is an excellant target for women in a rape situation or for the shower in prison. The pubic area bite will cause him to arch his back and due to the male attachment to this area will cause him to freak out.

The hip area bite is effective in getting him to curl up and roll onto the hip you bit. There are a tremendous amount of blood vessels going through the hip area and if you get a deep bite you will both affect the ability to use the corresponding leg and cause a great deal of blood loss.

I just realized maybe I am sick I have spent the better part of my life aquiring this knowledge and practicing it.

Subject: Kachin Systems of Burmese Grappling (Naban)
From: Phil Dunlap
Date: 22-Oct-99 | 03:09 PM

Kachin Systems of Burmese Grappling (Naban)

As in the above posts (Clinch and Rear Naked) now that I have some time and with the seminar coming up I will continue with this thread and finish it out

To avoid reposting the previous threads I am putting down the following link to stickgrapplers page. Once again Hy has been nice enough to archive several threads for those intersted in the thread in its entirety.

http://members.tripod.com/~Stickgrappler/bando/kachin.htm

We left off with:

biting the legs hips and crotch area

I just realized maybe I am sick I have spent the better part of my life aquiring this knowledge and practicing it. Next up we will cover biting the leg area and move onto striking on the ground and submissions.

Phil Dunlap

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From: Sothy
Date: 22-Oct-99 | 03:10 PM

what about STDs?

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From: Dan
Date: 22-Oct-99 | 03:42 PM

oh my god, Phil you are one sick puppy. I think now maybe I will order your tape eventually.

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From: bustr
Date: 22-Oct-99 | 04:57 PM

Phil

Do you train to develope a hard bite like they do in Le-Fa and Python Silat?

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From: Phil Dunlap
Date: 28-Oct-99 | 11:25 AM

To those weary of biting this is the last post covering biting next up will be submission theory and how it isv affected by striking on the ground. Covering biting was impostant as it pertains to real life self defense, The system we are talking about is a combat system and the idea of biting very definatly affects the spacial relationships in positioning and submissions. And biting is something that generally goes so far past the average americans acceptance that many times irt can end a fight through sheer psychological tewrror.

Biting the legs Good targets on the legs. First would be the inside of the thigh a bite to this area makes the person curl up and the lower leg fold inward if he happens to be standing he will go down. Target from the knee to mid femur area any higher and th groin should be your target. Outside of thigh will make him yank the leg away from you generally creating space and is generally a hard place to bite due to heavy muscle. Next up would be the butt and hamstring the butt area will make the person yank away and is great for creating space and the hamstring bite will cause his leg to spasm and extend the calf away and is excellant for escaping the straight armbar.

Lower leg and foot. The calf is a good target as it cuases the leg to straighten out the achilles tendon is a great target as it can be bitten through and the person loses the use of that leg. The foot generally is noyt a good target as peple wear shoes so I will leave this out.

Okay the biting is done. I want to leave one thought though Just think you and your 4 friends decide to beat a person up. He punches your best friend in the face and he goes down what do you do. Now pisture it he slaps yoyr friends head and bites his nose off and spits it at you and is now glaring at you with blood running down his chin. That is the reality and the psychological effect of biting not only is the initial opponent done but other potential opponents are affected deeply.

Phil Dunlap