52 handblocks/jailhouse rock thread started by me, Stickgrappler

Posted to Underground forum

Subject: 52 handblocks/jailhouse rock
From: Stickgrappler
Date: 21-May-01 | 05:16 PM

Douglas Century, the author of STREET KINGDOM, has been in email contact with me regarding 52 hand blocks (aka 52, 52 blocks, Jailhouse Rock, Jailhouse Boxing) and wanted me to post this for the forum for those interested in 52/JHR.

In the past, forum member Dempsy has interviewed Dennis Newsome regarding 52/JHR. For those who have not read the interview, check out my site: http://go.to/stickgrappler. Click the Unofficial Underground forum archives and in the Jailhouse Rock section, check out the pages.

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Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 10:11:42 -0400

I did an amazing 2 hour interview last night with Bernard Hopkins, holder of two world middleweight boxing championship belts, and the man who's going to fight Tito Trinidad for the undisputed middleweight champ on Sept. 15. He knew about the 52 Blocks, but said in Philly they just called in The Bumrush. He talked all about streetfighting versus prizefighting. You know he was incarcerated for 5 years in his prime for armed robbery. But (and here's the key thing) he said that Zab Judah, the Brooklyn superstar featherweight fighter, was telling him about the 52 Blocks, saying that some of Hopkins inside fighting tactics with shoulders and elbows (derided as "dirty fighting" within boxing) are actually aspects of 52 Blocks. Of course, now I'm going to have to talk to Zab Judah at the famed Gleason's Gym and get his perspective. My thinking now is that 52 is mostly a Brooklyn phenomenon -- the guy that Dennis Newsome learned from was from Brooklyn, too.

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Some 52 references in rap lyrics later when I have time.

WOW... Everything is blue. Your aura is magnificent.

TTT

Hey, Stickgrappler. I don't know if you remember, but I posted about this months ago. You mentioned that you had been in contact with D. Century. Thanks for keeping us updated. I enjoyed Street Kingdom. Did Century give an update on K?

Closest thing I've seen to JHR/52 was in a prison documentary. I think I mentioned it to you way back when. The title escapes me now, but there were three "caught on tape" fights, all very short. One looked to me like the guys were drilling, though the narrator overdramaitized it and described it as a fight. Another scene showed a free-for-all fight in which one guy does a beautiful takedown on a guy who shot in on him. He sprawled, grabbed around the guy's waist, and lifted him up, then slammed him down in this front-suplex kind of thing. Maybe a wrestler could say what the technique is called.

Anyway, please post any new info. Thanks.

SILENTSTRYKE,

damn! where did my aura go? ;-)

Johnny99,

i remember...here's Doug Century's reply to your question...i thought i emailed it to you, if not, sincerest apologies...please send me an email so that i can properly save it this time...must've deleted it thinking i saved it and replied already...sorry

Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 11:22:41 EDT

Where is he? Big K (his street alias obviously -- he went by the name Knowledge Born) is currently serving a six-year sentence in the New York State penitentiary at Fishkill. (Fishkill Correctional Facility is the official title; he was convicted of armed robbery in Brooklyn.) I talk to him quite often. There is virtually NO fist-fighting any more in prison, he tells me. Of course there are the occasional stabbings, as you'd expect. When you consider that he had prison experiences beginning as a juvenile in the '70s in Spofford and Goshen, and Rikers Island during its wildest times in the late'80s, he's something of an "expert" on fighting in jail. Back in the '80s, there were fights over everything -- sneakers, clothing, snacks -- but now he says it's like a whole different world, being incarcerated. Mostly guys are lifting, really heavy, and K's bench max is hovering near 500. (He weighs close to 300.) Just so you know, I actually did witness K in some wicked street fights (he was a paid security for some upscale jewelry stores on Fifth Avenue in manhattan), and though he had formal boxing experience, he did throw in some of that 52 hand block stuff. What he always told me though, is that to really see it done, BOTH parties must know it. As I mentioned, Brooklyn was famed for the guys who could "throw up their dickbeaters" -- the official slang for fists -- and fight with the 52 hand blocks.

Johny99, I saw the same documentary. That was a brutal slam.

Stickgrappler, very interesting post. So excuse my ignorance but ; what is "52 hand blocks"? Is it a hybrid style of streetfighting ?

Thanks

dendawg,

start with:

In the past, forum member Dempsy has interviewed Dennis Newsome regarding 52/JHR. For those who have not read the interview, check out my site: http://go.to/stickgrappler. Click the Unofficial Underground forum archives and in the Jailhouse Rock section, check out the pages.

more later.

Thanks, Stickgrappler. Century mentions those fights in the book. In one, he did go up against another 52 practitioner. Not sure about K's age. Think it's too late to get him into MMA when he's released. :)

not a prob.

i do not have an exact age for K, i believe he's in his 30's.

52 blocks his Brooklyn's martialarts. I know a couple of guys who know it. It does work.

caseman,

can you provide more info, such as who the guys you know learned from? just curious how old those guys you know are? what does it look?

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Doug Century knows some guys too in brooklyn. jailhouse rock is the older term and 52 or 52 hand blocks or 52 blocks is what it's known as now. it's mainly in brooklyn, nyc and philly. it's heyday was in the 70's.

some hiphop/rap groups, mainly Wu-Tang Clan and it's offshoots, have referenced 52 in their songs.

I'm from the BX and a friend of mine from Bushwick bought up the term 52 blocks a few times but I never really asked him to explain what it was. Next time I see him I'll ask to see what he knows about it.

Where I went to school (Brooklyn) there were some kids from East New York and Brownsville who went there and they new it. It seems like 52 blocks is a East New York/Brownsville thing to be exact. No one in my neighborhood millbasin/berganbeach(white) knew it. Also black kids from other areas in brooklyn didn't seem to know it either. It definately is a East New York thing in my opinion. I mostly saw it in slap boxing mostly and those who knew it could really whip the crap out of somebody.

SILENTSTRYKE and caseman,

very interesting, thanks! if you can provide any other info it would be awesome.

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FYI, Doug Century is planning on doing an article on 52 for DETAILS magazine and maybe a book. a while ago, i posted asking members to post their q's for Dennis Newsome. i sent those q's to Doug and he will interview Newsome. also, he will be asking the people he knows in brooklyn, in addition to K those same q's.

I can't say for sure, but I can almost guarentee Mike Tyson knows it. I will bet you he knows it. It would be interesting to hear what he thinks about it's effectiveness. Anyone from Brownsville/EastNewYork knows it.

I've heard that about Tyson. Some say you can see it in one of his fights. Forget which one. Douglas or Smith, maybe. Stickgrappler probably knows.

Tyson Vs Bone crusher smith was what Newsome told dempsy in the 1st interview.

in Century's book, there is a reference to K fighting using 52 in spofford. and it mentions no one in Spofford would fight with "Money Mike" (tyson). it is said he learned 52. i have the passage at home. will post it later.

dammit, we need an expose here! Im interested, cant let this stay secret!

i think the Details article and if he does a book will intro 52 to the rest of the world. Century wants it to be the definitive (not there is much existing literature on it) article. he is in contact with his guys who know 52 in addition to K and Dennis Newsome, who was probably one of the first MA figures to mention it by choreographing Lethal Weapon and coming out with the article. In case anyone doesn't know, MARTIAL ARTS AROUND THE WORLD pub'd by Unique Publications (guys who do Inside Kung Fu mag) collected some of their technique articles vs various attacks and newsome demo's 4 JHR responses to bear hug, sucker punch, a kick and one one tech.

Century has given me some info to archive to my site which i will in time.

Damn, hearing that Mike knows "52" I think i might have just changed my mind on how he might do in MMA. Would elements of 52 be allowed in an MMA competition though? I know nothing about this art.

i doubt if all aspects of 52 would be allowed. from what i have heard/read so far, it seems it is truly NHB and not the NHB/MMA sport.

just imagine a convict with all the time in the world to work his benchpresses and can bench 450 lbs. he's all solid muscle and he does this 52, like dirty boxing with the HB, and E and thumbgouges, bites, spitting, etc. who do you think would win in a NHB/MMA sport event if that was all allowed? sort of like ohter MA arguments about entering into NHB/MMA and not being allowed to do those techs.

special thanks goes to Doug Century for providing these references.

"Fifty-Two blocks, Cazelle frames
bald heads and heavy chains
somehow caught in the game
back in '83, before cable TV
when these so called thug niggas played in the street..."

Artist: Nature
Album: For All Seasons
Title: I Remember.

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"I ain't have to quickdraw Mcgraw ya, I could Fifty Two Block ya
Switch my stance up Southpaw, drop ya ..."

Artist: American Cream Team f/ Raekwon, RZA
Album: Black and White Soundtrack
Song: "It's Not a Game"

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And here's yet another Wu-Tang reference to 52 blocks -- this time from a street basketball movie.

"Yo, we throwin 52 blocks at outside shots to bubble up the snot box
No penalties or shot blocks, it's similar to Comstock, kid
You catch an elbow in this hellhole of concrete
Add a touch of soul before we compete..." *

* Translation, for those of your members not up on street slang: the guy is defending another guy in basketball, but saying he's gonna throw a 52 Block move during an outside jump shot, and then blood will flow from his opponent's nose (snot box)-- because this being street baskeball, there's no fouls called. Rather, it's similar to being in Comstock (notorious prison in New York State -- interestingly a whole system of 52 is named after Comstock). The elbow reference is also interesting, because so many 52 moves involve surreptitious elbow shots and forearms to the neck, solar plexis or other pressure poing... They could sneakily be employed in a rough-and-tumble basketball game with no referee calling fouls p>

Artist: The Wu All-Stars
From the movie: "Soul in the Hole"
Song Title: "Soul in the Hole"

I have some info on this from an article in the 1970s that I can post tonight if you can keep this ttt...

Thanks for posting this info, stickgrappler.

This stuff is extremely interesting! Thanx stickgrappler and all other contributors.

information

Okay, found it. There's another reference to the Comstock style.

From BLACK BELT MAGAZINE, July, 1974: "Karate in Prison: Menace, or Means of Spiritual Survival?" by Anne Darling and James Perryman, p. 21:

Another ex-inmate says the first time he ever saw a karate technique was in Coxsacki, a New York prison, in 1948. "The different prisons had and still have their own fighting styles," he says. They were prison martial arts, not traditional styles. In fact, Kid Gavilan (world welterweight boxing champion, 1951-54) used a Coxsacki variation, and Floyd Patterson's peekaboo style was a Coxsacki variation, too. Because of limited space in prison, we learned wall-fighting techniques. Then a lot of former G.I.s in the joint had learned hand-to-hand combat - they came home, styled it, made it hip, and gave it soul."

Miguel "Miky" Pinero, while an inmate of Sing-Sing, wrote a play called "Short Eyes" about the killing of a sex offender in a house of detention. The play is now a smashing success at the Public Theater in New York. Pinero describes his introduction to prison martial arts: "The first thing I did in the joint was to check out the style and learn to fight with a home piece - somebody from my neighborhood on the streets. I learned the Woodbourne shuffle, an evasion technique that first was used in the joint at Woodbourne and got passed around. Then I learned wall-fighting, and somebody taught me the Comstock style.

The Comstock style, named for an upstate New York prison, involves what one inmate calls "the use of dirty fighting techniques." The object is to lure an opponent into thinking he is going to get a "fair one - then go for a quick, sneak kick to the ankle, kneecap, or family jewels."

(End of Black Belt article)

There's also some references to Jailhouse Rock in some of the articles written for Guns and Ammo by "Jim Grover," who teaches firearms and combatives. His 3-tape "Combatives" series from Paladin may contain a couple of moves in there.

Most of you know that Dennis Newsome was one of the 3 choreographers on the first LETHAL WEAPON movie, along with a Capoeira expert and a then little-known Rorion Gracie.

Interesting stuff, guys - keep the info flowing.

MickJeCo,

*WOW* thanks brother for posting that.

may i ask a favor? is it possible to get a photocopy of that BB article? you posted the whole article? man, that was short and left me wanting more. any pictures? also, do you have any of the G&A Grover articles? i will gladly reimburse you for photocopying and postage.

TIA.

it just occurred to me that some of you may not know who Doug Century is or what STREET KINGDOM is about. his book is available from amazon, b&n, borders, etc. from Warner Books 2000 in both hardcover and softcover. here's some info from www.bn.com:

Street Kingdom: Five Years inside the Franklin Avenue Posse by Douglas Century

Synopsis

In the tradition of "Hoop Dreams" and A Hope in the Unseen, the author of Street Kingdom spent years getting to know and understand the people who populate his story. The subjects here are all members of Brooklyn's Franklin Avenue Possé, a violent gang that ran the drug trade in their tough Crown Heights neighborhood. In the book and over the years, Douglas Century builds a portrait of youth struggling against their pasts and the poverty and crime around them.

From the Publisher

From a debut author whose work invites comparisons to Norman Mailer, Hunter S. Thompson, and Richard Price comes an inside portrait of the Franklin Avenue Posse, one of Brooklyn's most-feared street crews. It began as a chance encounter - the night in 1992 when Douglas Century, a white, Ivy League-educated journalist, met Big K, a young streetwise hip-hop artist, at a nightclub on Manhattan's Lower East Side. Gradually, under Big K's aegis, Century was drawn deep into the urban vortex portrayed in the rapper's remarkable lyrics. Becoming K's confidant and sounding board, Century found himself riding shotgun with the Posse and hearing their untold story - how, a decade ago, at the height of New York's crack wars, K and his Crown Heights crew "stood knee-deep in drug money" and kept an entire borough "runnin' red." Now, through Century's affecting present-tense narrative, we see both Big K's brutal past and his life today - juggling the pursuit of a rap career and his daytime security jobs, all the time walking the difficult line that separates "straight life" and the street. We meet K's crew of "hardrocks" - Brooklynese for "gangstas" - former stickup kids, gunrunners, and coke dealers in the eerie, ink-black Brooklyn night. And we enter New York's infamous juvenile prisons where frightened children become hardened badmen...and travel inside the maximum-security penitentiaries like Sing Sing and Clinton where Posse members are still serving time.

Contents

Author's Note.......................................................ix
prologue The Tombs..................................................1
one Enter the Cipher................................................7
two Gangster Rules.................................................48
three Original Crooks..............................................91
four Kick the Ballistics..........................................128
five Flippin' Script..............................................165
six Mad Love......................................................189
seven Point Blank.................................................219
eight Pressure Drop...............................................245
nine No Sleep till Brooklyn.......................................293
ten Duppy or Gunman...............................................336
eleven Badman Business............................................384
epilogue Cipher Complete..........................................396
Note on the Names..................................................403
Acknowledgments....................................................405
Glossary...........................................................407

to read chapter 1, click here

just fed our newborn, can't sleep :-(

more 411 later

I'm up , too. Must be a disturbance in the force.

Though a great read, I honestly thought that the book's claim of "Five years inside the FAP" was misleading, as K was done with the FAP and the Life before he and Century met. It's really more about the friendship of a white, jewish, upper class writer and a hardcore former gangster who's trying to go straight and how they influence each other.

Still, the publisher's description of Century "riding shotgun with the Posse" is nothing compared to the crap TRS video comes up with to sell their products :)

special thanks goes to Doug Century for providing these references.

"Allah don't like ugly so I held back from bustin him
I passed the burn off, he caught me from the blind side
Tapped a nigga jaw, I shot my fifty-two style, and crazy raw..."

Album: The Great White Hype soundtrack
Song: "Who's the Champion"
RZA and Ghostface Killah..."

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"Fifty-two cops can't withstand the 52 blocks
Unless they bust like 52 shots
I'm the has been that have not
Battle kids at Maxwell's house..."

Artist: Method Man and Redman
Album: Blackout
Song: "1, 2, 1, 2"

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"Beat niggaz toothless, physically cut up like gooses
But with iron* on the sides thugs took no excuses
Therefore, your fifty-two handblocks was useless..."

Artist: GZA f/ Inspectah Deck, Life
Album: Liquid Swords
Song: "Cold World"

*The iron refers to a handgun, meaning with me carrying a gun, your fifty-two skills are of no use to you.

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anyone have others?

Hey Stickgrappler.

I was under the impression from reading your stuff on your site that this prison style martial arts had somewhat questionable origins.

From what you know about it, is it legit? Did these guys really train in prison back in the 70's?

I've seen videos of prisoners practicing disarms for dealing with the Police and rapid fire knife attacks.

In one of the wu tang videos, I cant rememebr which one, there is a spoof of kung fu flicks where one guy does some crazy moves, they freeze frame and it says under him something like "white eye brow crane style" then the wu tang guy takes a fighting stance, and under him it says "Brooklyn style" maybe we saw some footage of the 52 there?

mule,

at first some have thought it dubious, but from my emails with Doug Century, it seems it is probably legit. reason we even heard about it was Dennis Newsome's involvement with Lethal Weapon and the mag. articles. generally only thugs or cons learned it. some boxers have also learned/seen the moves.

Century (white) says he knows guys (black) who show him the moves and are in Brooklyn NY now. maybe from Dennis Newsome's perspective (CA), non-whites are shown the 52.

tjmitch,

it may be or it may not. Century will try to interview the Wu-Tang Clan probably Method Man. he doubts if they learned the 52.

if you remember the vid's name, please post.

TIA.

A cop I met at a handgun disarm seminar said that he tries to learn everything he can about self-defense, because "The bad guys train, too."

Hey guys, greetings. I'm Doug Century -- the writer who has been discussed in this forum. As you know, Stickgrappler and I've been having some great back-and-forth e-mails about this whole 52 Blocks or JHR phenomenon. For those of you who didn't hear, I'm actually writing a feature for Details magazine about the history of the 52 Blocks fighting style.

I've talked to some prominent prizefighters such as Zab Judah and Bernard Hopkins who know of the technique, did several long interviews with Dennis Newsome, and John Sowett (sp.) who published the book Martial Arts around the World. Newsome is probably the most scientifically knowledgable about it -- he won't refer to it as a martial arts, but as a prison survival art. Much thanks for posting old Black Belt article: I never thought of Floyd Patterson's peekaboo stance, later picked up by Tyson, as being influenced by Jailhouse fighting, but it's very probable.

But primarily, my sources are "the real deal," that is street guys -- gangsters, robbers, thugs, if you will -- that I've known for several years in Brooklyn. One of you mentioned it being a primarily East New York/Brownsville phenom, which may be true, though I also know many guys in Crown Heights and Bed-Stuy who were feared for it.

The main guy who showed it to me, the character Big K in my book, is currently incarcerated 3-6 years in Fishkill Correctional pen in upstate New York. His real (or "government" name, as they call it) is Darryl, but mostly he's known as Kawaun or Knowledge Born. Those of you who asked, he's in his early 30s, hugely fit -- 6'3 and 285, with a build like an NFL defensive lineman (Bruce Smith-type) very lean and powerful and quick.

I just saw K on the weekend in the visiting room of Fishkill and he was demonstrating some gangsta locks --one of the primary stances in 52 -- from his seat. (He could only have a visit in the "keeplock" area since he is has been sentenced to "The Box" that is solitary confinement for 30 days for supposedly hitting a corrections officer.) The gangsta locks are something Mike Tyson did a lot in his classic early knockout fights, against Trevor Berbick and Bonecrusher Smith etc.

The gangsta locks are a very fluid pattern of blocks that (how do I describe it?) look nothing like Asian arts, but more like a hypnotic dance mixed with the unfolding of a multi-bladed Swiss Army knife. Once you've seen it, you'll know that it could only be a "black" style -- as one guy said to me, it's like the street-basketball of an Allen Iverson -- fluid grace and in your face flash that comes only from a hard street background.

Now K just wrote me from prison with some insights about the 52, but he didn't answer all the questions yet that some of the members submitted to Stickgrappler. What he did say -- and this is to his credit -- is that he doesn't consider himself a "master" of the style. He definitely knows a bunch of moves, but all the real masters were older dudes who came up in the 70s when there was much more pride in streetfighting and when gunplay wasn't so common in Brooklyn streets. (Now every little 14 picks up a gun to blast anyone who disrespects him...)

I forwarded K a bunch of material from your forum, and things Dennis Newsome told me, and here is K's direct words from his letter:

(cont.) "... So the 52 is making itself known again in this day and age, huh? I must say that Mr. Newsome is most proficient in this subject, what with his reference to its origin dating back to the 19th century slaves and all. And you say Mr. Newsome taught 'JHR' to Mel Gibson? Excellent! I was amazed at his comparing the 52 to capoeria, this blew me away, because the capoeria is a form of Yoruban dance to the Orishas (better known to you as santeria)... My friend, the 52 Blocks are as ancient now in New York State prisons as the standup, no-nonsense, no-ratting, no homo-loving, no-mercy, no-fuss, no-muss, no-guilt, hard-core gangsta prisoner. Prison has become a place inept of keeping the code of the true thug alive. Somewhere between Big Rique [that's K's older brother, a tough-as-nails street fighter who died in 1999 after 10 years in Clinton State Prison], Duffy, His-Herb, Tommy, Iz-Ante, G-Man and the rest of the people who have made gangsta-ism gangsta. The moral fiber of prison honor, grace and poise (if ever there was such) has been lost. As such, too, our most insidious art of war: the 52."

As you can tell -- classic "incarcerated scarface" style -- K's got a penchant for throwing around big words where little ones would suffice; but what he's saying is that the 52 is a dead or dying art. Of the various guys he mentioned, I know Duffy and I'm interviewing Tommy aka Tom Roof -- for the article on Friday. They were all part of a notorious robbery crew in the late 70s known as the Ave Ave Crew (based on Washington Avenue and St. John's Place in Brooklyn.)

Duffy is without doubt the most feared 52 fighter I ever encountered. K for example, as bad as he is with his fists, would NEVER fight him one on one. If anyone read my book, I chose to call him Razor (don't want to get myself killed! The guy was actively on a robbery spree the summer I met him); he's a career criminal armed robber, and now is back in maximum-security prison now for another armed robbery. A visual -- Duffy is about 5'11, 220 lbs, dreadlocks, about Mike Tyson's size, but much more ripped and evil looking if you can imagine. He's 39 years old now. People who really know the streets have told me that in a no-holds barred streetfight between Duffy and Tyson (back when Tyson was a mugger and streetfighter in the '70s) they would NOT bet against Duffy.

That's my final word to you guys to consider about this stuff in relation to other martial arts. Dennis Newsome is the exception to the rule here -- he's a law abiding, professional type who really mastered and studied this stuff. Most others are straight-up vicious street "criminals" or "predators" (most have definitely taken another man's life during their life of crime, whether they were convicted of it or not.) They've grown up in some of the toughest 'hoods in America, and learned some of the "dirtiest" fighting styles in the nastiest correctional facilities where (as everyone knows) it's not the Mafia but the ruthless black street hoods who really run the prison population ... Nail gouging to the eyes...elbows to throat... sneak attacks to the testicles. As you know, anything goes in a street or prison fight. Newsome told me that he's faught black guys who were black belts in all different Asian styles (wing chun, Akido, etc) and whipped butt, but the only guy who beat him was a better practitioner of 52-- the guy threw a little-flick punch with first-and-second fingers snapping into the eye socket and Newsome said it felt like his eye was exploding back into his brain.

If you guys are interested I'll post more later....

Doug

Hey Doug, I read your book. Pretty good. I enjoyed it. But the one thing that pisses me off and that I want to know is WHEN IS K GOING TO LEARN CRIME DOESN'T PAY?

Doug,

WOW! glad to have you aboard. welcome! between home and work, i've been trying to post some of your emails, but now, thanks for posting!!

by all means do post more when you have a chance.

hyman

one thing i did not remember to post is that if you have q's for Doug or K, post or email me.

Wow. Great first chapter, I'll have to get that book.

Keep it coming, and I'm Stickgrappler with archive this thread.

Does anyone know if there are similarities to sliat?

When K gets out someone should train him for MMA

I have a question for Doug and I mean no disrespectbut I'm curious. Why does a Jewish guy from the suburbs have such a fascination with inner city blacks (he's also married to one)?

Awesome,Awesome,Awesome post!

Best in a looong time,keep up the excellent work guys :)

That's the MOST intersting thread I've seen in awhile, here or in other forums,

Please keep going, share info!

This is a fabulous thread!

paulm,

newsome mentioned that there are some similarities to silat. ultimately being human and bipedal, we can only move our arms, hands, legs, knees, feet, head, waist, a certain way. so there is nothing new under the sun, however, what Doug has mentioned to me is that with 52, there is a certain rhythm, almost like dancing that inner-city blacks like he posted above.

this is definitely going to get archived to my site!

ttt

TTT!!!!

Stickgrappler, the video is Surviving Edged Weapons put out by Calibre Press for law enforcement officers.

It's a pretty disturbing video since it addresses some important issues involving edged weapons.

Ha! I have post #52

Oh, well. My dad always told me, "Son, whatever you do in life, try to be number 53."

Dad wasn't a huge overachiever.

Thanks for posting, Doug.

I used to box with a brother at the Y who blocked much the way you described, like a knife unfolding. He got it from his boxing coach in Compton who got it from...?

As I mentioned in my earlier posts, I really enjoyed Street Kingdom. I came across it by chance in the sociology section while researching my last novel. As I said, it was not what I expected, but I couldn't put it down.

Aside from the Details article, what are you working on?

Aw, jeez. I tell you I'm a writer, then I go and end a sentence with a prepostion.

"-- K's got a penchant for throwing around big words where little ones would suffice;"

I try to not to use big words when diminutive ones will suffice adequately. I also avoid run-on sentences they are hard to read and editors hate them.

Thanks again for posting.

thanks for the quick response guys. Great to hear back so fast. Sorry to make another long post; I'm just catching up here. In future, my posts will be more succinct (like a crisp one-two combination...)

(1) Caseman's question first: that is why a Jewish guy from the 'burbs has such a fascination with "inner city blacks. (He's also married to one)" Yes, I'm married to an African-American woman from the Bronx, but I don't primarily think of Crystal as "an inner city black." She's also a PhD from Columbia, a highly paid pharmaceutical industry consultant, a ballroom dancer who also likes tai chi ... you get the picture, right? I mean, people are more than the sum of their "racial" category. I'd like to think I'm more than just the obnoxious-sounding category: "Ivy League-educated Jew." (sounds pretty sad!) But your point is well taken, and my answer is: writers write about things that fascinate them, that touch on things they need to know. The truth is the conditions of young black guys in the "hood" -- or prison, for that matter -- is as far removed from my experience as imaginable, therefore I have the most possible to learn from them. (No different than some writer travelling to Rwanda or Bosnia or some other brutal place.) And then, after a time, you just become friends and enjoy each other's company. You should know, I ALSO have a ton of Jewish middle-class, Irish, Italian etc. friends.

And I'm working on a new book about the Mafia now with a Irish-Catholic NYPD detective (the kind of cop who was actually trying to lock up guys like K!) so that should break the stereotpye of me being some kind of "wigger," huh? (Answer to Johnny99 question.)

(2) K entering MMA would probably not be the BEST idea -- he is trying to learn not (as one angry criminal court Judge actually said to him in a courtroom) "to settle everything with his fists." Caseman: He is, I believe, learning that crime don't pay -- but the reality is it's all about the company you keep. No matter how good you strive to be, if you go back around your old neighborhood and dudes aren't doing well, hungry, looking to make a buck however possible, you run the risk of getting mixed up in some criminal behavior very quickly. The only answer is pretty much changing your environment, getting an education, but that's easier said than done... But as I said to Stickgrappler, if you took a guy straight out of a vicious prison environment and threw him into a fight tournament, he would no doubt be highly successful, as he brings the killer instinct to play as much as any technique.

There are going to be many fascinating developments in this Details story, but one thing you should know is that some of the best practitioners of 52/JHR are NOT big guys like K. Newsome is, I believe, 5'4", 160-ish and doesn't believe in lifting weights. Several other guys who were very adept on the streets like K's brother Big Rique (name is misleading, cuz the guy was about my size, 5'6". As Newsome said to me, "I can't benchpress 500 pounds, so I have to use different techniques," i.e. immediate and devastating strikes to pressure points to disable opponent.

Also, an article we found on a Lexis search at Details talked about how Wesley Snipes threw a real mixed bag of techniques into his fight scenes in the movie Blade (never saw it.) And he was quoted as saying jailhouse rock was one thing he borrowed from.

Hey Johnny99-- fellow wordsmith, huh? big question for you. You said you encountered a cop who was trying to keep up on streetfighting knowledge. I need to speak to a law enforcement source for my article; do you still have his number or name? I would appreciate it if you could put me in touch with him. Thanks!

Since I'm new, school me: what's this "ttt" abbreviation for?

to the top, and thanks again for the info.

TTT to the top... as threads get responses, they "go to the top", no action, they fall to the bottom, and eventually off the board. This is really intersting stuff. I ocasionally spar with a guy who grew up in the bronx, and he always does these cool "locks" and alot of movement with his arms, changing which one is the lead hand, alot of sholder movement, in what the dog brothers call "snake range", ie before you are close enough to engage. It really is kind of cool to watch, and does lead to some suprise first strikes.

Hey, why is it called "52"? Are there actually 52 different hand blocks, or is the number in reference to something else?

no, not 52 individual blocks -- that's what I always thought. Newsome says it's cuz the style is fluid, unscripted like that joke-game "52 card pickup" -- let the cards fall where they may, that's the way I fight. As good a theory as any.

century I am a police defensive tactics instructor as well as teaching officer survival. I try to keep up with current street trends as much as I can. If I can assist you, tommygunn_81@hotmail.com

Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 00:16:27 -0400

As far as the Brooklyn guys I know, they've known about 52 Blocks since they were kids in the '60s. And the stories are all so consistent that I doubt they are legends. Like just tonight I was talking to another friend (ex-con) named Justice. He also knew all about Mother Dear -- they had crossed paths when he was incarcerated about 10 years ago in Collins (a prison in upstate NY). Mother Dear is very very feared in prison because he is not only an awesome fighter but because he is gay and will rape guys after knocking them unconscious (I'm not making this up!! -- even Newsome had heard that out in California.)

Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 00:23:35 -0400

See, the 52 Blocks is all about looking slick and artistic while you fight. One move I saw K do was when a guy throws a punch, you block it by locking it in place between two forearms. Mr. Newsome uses this block too and says he can then twist in such a way that the opponent is completely immobilized. But in the variation I saw K do, he not only locked the guys fist in place, he then drew it to his chin, kissed it and threw the fist back at the guy! That's the kind of moves that are in 52/ Jail House Rocks.

Doug, good response. The analogy to Rwanda and Bosnia really helped me understand. Now that I think about it, you had a great idea. The things that go on in those neighborhoods are for the most part unknown to most, and are quite interesting, not to mention they take place in our own country.

Okay, file this under weird but true. Most of the very feared 52 guys in Brooklyn were known -- sorry to be so politically incorrect, but this is the direct quote -- as being "homos." Mother Dear was one; another was named Mother Nature (these very names refer to their homosexuality.

I interviewed Zab Judah at Gleason's Gym (Zab's record is 26-0-1, Undefeated World's Junior Welterweight Champion). He knew all about 52 Blocks and says he incorporates some of it in his fighting style. Zab is a buddy of Mike Tyson (both grew up in Brownsville.) He also told me about a guy called "Dead-arm Ro," (also known to Big K as "One-punch Ro"), who, as Zab said, "was a homo, too. They was both homos. But they was wicked shooting the 52." I think this is a reference to homosexuality in prison, rather than lifestyle choice in streets, but the label stuck.

Some on this site have speculated that Mother Dear was a myth, but I've met guys who claim to have been taught by him personally in prison: Duffy (real name Michael Duffy), and Rique Richards (Big K's Panamanian-born older brother "Big Rique"). According to K, Mother Dear was tall, skinny and lightskinned, with very, very long (yes, womanly) fingernails, which he would use viciously in his fights. (I confess, this remains URBAN LEGEND, but if enough diverse people -- like Newsome out in San Diego -- have heard the same names and stories, I tend to believe there is at least some historical basis in fact.)

Caseman: yeah, and I have friends who've written precisely about warzones in Africa and Bosnia and I often think, there's just as much of a warzone in East Flatbush, Bed-Stuy, Harlem -- or for that matter, South Central, Watts, etc. You don't have to leave the USA to see a slice of the world where life is very, very deadly.

ttt

This is some fascinating stuff. Probably one of the better threads I've read on here. I'm still a little confused on what Jailhouse Rock/52 Hand Blocks is though. Does it actually have a set variety of techniques? Or is it pretty much a freestyle/hybrid system of techniques that have worked in prison fights and streetfighting situations? I've seen some dirty boxing techniques, such as blocking a right hand with your left elbow and various clinching techniques and I'm wondering if some of them don't play a part in this "Jailhouse Rock" style. The infighting techniques of boxing, especially the dirty tricks fascinate me. We all know that boxing as we see it now isn't boxing as you would have seen it in the 1920's and 1930's. The rules have pretty much dictated the way boxing is taught. Watch tapes of Jack Johnson, and you'll see a more laid back defensive approach, because he knew he had to fight 20 some rounds instead of 12. We've got a watered down version of boxing today in my opinion. Man, could those 1920's and 1930's boxing guys have taught us a thing or two about dirty fighting. Essentially, what I'm wondering, is if alot of the stuff that these Jailhouse rock practitioners do, is similar to say what a guy such as Harry Greb would've been doing in the 1920's? I know it's a far off question, but I'm still trying to piece together what this 52 Hand Blocks stuff is about.

Doug- Do you think that people like K are in the situation they are in because they have not cared enough to work hard enough to change it? Also,do you think that rehabilitation works?

Keith, great questions. Yes, it's definitely a complex system, but not with katas or analogies to Asian arts. It's more like capoeira, fighting disguised as a dance. It's definitely NOT just made up as you go. Now, I'm not a fight expert, so it's hard for me to put this in context, but two experienced 52 pracitioners will definitely have the same basis of knowledge, e.g. there's one classic move that involves touching the ground in a sudden grab for your opponent's ankle, throwing him off balance. If you know that move, you know how to defend it. According to Newsome, there are in fact a variety of systems, that developed based on the terrain of the different N.Y. State prisons. Comstock, Mount Meg, Napinoch -- all are different systems from different prisons. Tighter confinement led to a mutation than a more relaxed confinement.

Re: prizefighting. Yes, I've been told that some of this original jailhouse rock (the older name for 52 blocks) informed what we now think of as modern fight style. Mike Tyson fought "peekaboo," as did Floyd Patterson, as both were under Cus D'Amato's tutelage. I never considered it before, but the peekaboo stance may in fact have grown out of a jailhouse rock style (Floyd was incarcerated as a youth); it's certainly a far cry from the footage you see of classic 1920s fighters.

Look, I'm trying not to hog up this thread with my longwinded answers, but I keep getting asked *hard* questions! Caseman, yours is way too complicated to answer quickly. Rehabilitation does work in some contexts of course. A guy in my book called Justice -- remember the guy who whips my butt at chess at the end? -- okay, he's committed the ULTIMATE crime, he's a murderer in the eyes of society, did 3-9 year sentence for manslaughter, shooting a guy to death in a gunfight. (Yes, he did it -- doesn't say otherwise.) Justice is now raising a son and daughter, living a middle-class life with his wife on Staten Island, making very good money as a shop steward/foreman in a big construction union, and working on some major skyscrapers in New York. So he was indeed rehabilitated, learned that the $60-$70,000 a year he makes legit is a lot easier on the mind and conscience than scrambling to make $$$ selling cocaine in D.C. and various Southern towns -- his former career.

And yes, most guys like K are in prison because they succumbed to a "getting-over" philosophy, not working hard enough etc. It's much easier to pick up a gun and rob a cash register than putting in a month of 9-to-5 tedium. But that said, I watched K for years working doing low-paid security work in New York City, and saw him getting disrespected REGULARLY by employers (saying racist belittling things etc.), knowing all the while he could kick their ass in a second. So it takes a lot of patience and discipline to survive in the legit world for these guys. Some guys can't be rehabiliated -- the guy Duffy I mentioned as most adept 52-Block practitioner -- because they've been institutionalized. To them, seeing the streets is like a "vacation" between trips to prison where, quite frankly, they're perfectly happy. But look -- email me if you want more -- cuz this is important stuff but not really a fight topic!

Thank you Century. So depending on what prison a 52 Hand Blocks practioner was in, he would have a different style of 52 Hand Blocks, but alot of the techniques in 52, are in all the styles? Just variations and added techniques depending upon the environment. Alot of emphasis is put on looking good, or being "slick" from what I read above. That's pretty interesting, especially when you think about it being a black style of fighting. Because in boxing, there's definitely a much more flashy, slick style that is predominately used by more black fighters than white or hispanic ones. Definitely not your Rocky Marciano, or Jake Lamotta style. More in the Sugar Ray Robinson mold.

Keith, Yup, and as I said to Stickgrappler, it's like "black" style of basketball, or football. Sounds a little racist at first, but think about it. What white-boy has ever played basketball like Michael Jordan or Allen Iverson? Larry Bird was great, but definitely did not have the graceful street style. (To me, Jason Williams is a pale imitation of streetball style) What white running back ever had the grace and blinding in-your-face moves of Gale Sayers/Walter Payton/Barry Sanders? John Riggins and Larry Czonka were all-time great NFL ball-carriers, but not with that same style.

As you mentioned, as great as Italian fighters like Marciano or La Motta, Jewish fighters like Benny Leonard or Barney Ross were, there's no way they had the "pretty" dancing style of an Ali/Robinson/Roy Jones Jr.

It's exactly the same with 52 Blocks -- you gotta look "slick" and stylish when you fight. If you (or I)spent every hour for the rest of your life at the Y practicing basketball, you'd probably have a great jump-shot, but you'd never hang in midair like Jordan. And if you were trained by a master with all the 52 moves that exist, you'd never REALLY capture them, unless you grew up in an inner city cultural environment. That's my theory, at least, when I've been asked if whites or other ethnic groups besides African-Americans have learned the 52 blocks.

(I think people who are objective about athletics recognize that there are "ethnic" styles and rhythms to sports. Whites can be just as capable -- maybe more so -- in pure power events; watch those World's Strongest Man on ESPN and you see preponderance of Scandinavians and Celtic names; and people of West African ancestry most definitely dominate sprinting events. It's not racist to observe these things, it's just reality. Remember Franz Botha getting sent into NEXT TUESDAY with one punch of a much-diminished and slowed-down Mike Tyson?

"Look, I'm trying not to hog up this thread with my longwinded answers, but I keep getting asked *hard* questions!"

Actually, we appreciate your taking the time to answer in detail.

"I need to speak to a law enforcement source for my article; do you still have his number or name? I would appreciate it if you could put me in touch with him. Thanks!"

I know a couple who I'm sure would be happy to talk to you, but they're in L.A. and Ohio, and if your story is set in NYC they may not be as much help as a local LEO. And then there's "Mongo" (Tommygun) and others on the forum. Still, let me know if I can help. I've lost touch with many since moving from LA, but know a superior court judge back home pretty well, as well as a sharp street lawyer here in columbus who knows everyone in the local LE community.

I think a part of the fascination with JHR/52 on this forum is that many of us started in traditional martial arts, then started searching for something more realistic. Our appetites are whetted by the apparent practicality and effectiveness of 52, and its elusiveness makes it that much more tantalizing.

"She's also a PhD from Columbia, a highly paid pharmaceutical industry consultant, a ballroom dancer who also likes tai chi ... you get the picture, right?"

Does she have a sister? I'm also a middle class jew. No ivy league education, but I'm proud to say I did drop out of one of the better schools.

"See, the 52 Blocks is all about looking slick and artistic while you fight."

The brother I boxed with at the Y had blocks that looked slicker than two eels fucking in a bucket of snot, but they were very effective as well. Hard to take his centerline, and my forearms would get bruised up pretty good. (His did, too, but it was harder to tell :)

"And I'm working on a new book about the Mafia now with a Irish-Catholic NYPD detective"

Sounds cool. Non-fiction? Look forward to reading it. Thanks again for taking the time to "hog up this thread with longwinded answers". You've given us a lot of new info.

Mr. Century whats the chances of you writing an article for Black Belt Magazine or Martial Arts and Combat Sports magazine.

I'd love to see a real in depth multi part article in a magazine or just a massive write up.

Hey Century, When is your article going to be published in Details? I don't want to miss it. Tim

Hey Mule, I don't know anyone at those magazines, and I really don't feel qualified to write about this stuff as "an expert." But if I can't fit the whole story into my Details article, I could perhaps approach a more specialized publication about really going in-depth.

Re: the "style" aspect of 52. Just got off the phone with my friend Life in Brooklyn, who is gonna show me some SERIOUS 52 blocks moves on Friday: "When you see two dudes fighting with the 52, it looks better than any Jackie Chan movie." Meaning, the choreography is naturally beautiful, due to the rhythm aspect. The guy he's gonna fight (really just a sparring thing/slapboxing) is called Tom Roof (so named because his punches would all send you through the roof.) Tom Roof was a robber in the 70s. He once had a broken leg and was still sticking up half of Brooklyn. There were posters on the street describing him as "the one-legged bandit."

Re: something much earlier in thread. Life says it the 52 Blocks is strictly a Brooklyn thing. Others have wondered if it existed elsewhere. He is a veteran of many street confrontations -- as well as a guy who did Federal time for gun-running and was transfered from Atlanta Penitentiary to Terre Haute, Ind. to Lewisberg -- and he says he has never heard of anyone outside of Brooklyn knowing the "52." He didn't dispute that Newsome knew it well, once I told him Newsome learned from a Brooklyn guy himself.

Given all your interest, I'm hoping that this article may lead some enterprising filmmaker or documentary maker to try to capture some of these guys I know doing the 52 Blocks style so people can see it with their own eyes. We might have a whole new audience for 52 fighting!

Johnny99-- my wife does have a sister, but she's a real b----. Sorry.

My new book is nonfiction; I'm working in collab. with a detective who infiltrated Cosa Nostra (Gambino and Genovese families) for 3 years and brought down close to 50 mobsters. It was a very big case in New York.

I'd like to talk to any law enforcement people who try to learn street-fighting defense -- LAPD, would be good. But I did write to mongo personally, as he responded on this thread.

Tim, It's scheduled for August 2001 issue, but it's dependent on us getting great photos of my guys in Brooklyn fighting. With glossy mags like Details, if those pictures aren't awesome, they often don't run the article. Fingers crossed, though. The editors are really psyched up about the story.

Damn

Good luck Century.

Keep us posted man I can't wait.

great thread!!

ttft

for Doug, that means to the f*cking top :-)

Yeah, ttft

This is a great way to exchange ideas. When I see the guys in Brooklyn firsthand I'll be able to answer more of the questions you guys e-mailed about 52 techniques.

Great stuff. Just wanted to add that the black "style" mentioned above is something most often associated with American urban blacks. Blacks from countries outside the US won't necessarily display the same characteristics just because they are black.

As an example, note how black boxers from Africa such as Ike Quartey and Azumah Nelson didn't use the same "slick" style as black Americans such as Ray Robinson, Ray Leonard, and Muhammad Ali.

Perhaps the style should more appropriately be called "American black" style? It seems to be a phenomenon born from the unique conditions found only in this country.

Doug, if you are still on, check your email.

---------------

hmmm, where's Jinxer, Kirik, Ron_RPL96, Stovall, slowmo et al of the oldtimers who posted in the past?

i will try to call Dempsy tomorrow. hope i catch him to let him know of this thread.

--------------------------

here's Dempsy's post about Mother Dear from his interview with Dennis Newsome:

Date: 20-Aug-99 | 11:49 AM

an interesting story: a guy named mother dear on the east coast took out 9 inmates also using jail house rock, by himself. now this is impressive supposedly because 9 guys is tough but 9 JHR guys is supposed to be impossible. but he did and his rep supposedly went as far as the west coast jails. A guy later on the street lasted 5 min with mother dear and when he went into the joint he was like a legend just for lasting that long. so mother dear is like the rickson gracie of JHR lol.

This forum is addictive. Glad I don't do any other drugs!

Just found this on the internet, an article by a writer named John Burnham Schwartz. It's called "Noah's Children," a profile of a street criminal, and in it he mentions that the guy learned to fight in Spofford (same juvie jail as Tyson and my pal K). Note how the writer has never heard of this fighting style and so gets it wrong, calls it "The B-52"!!! (Was it a punk rock fighting style, with moves such as The Rock Lobster?) But it's further confirmation of this information being "out there" -- but no one ever bothered to really pull it all together systematically. Okay, direct quote from article follows:

* He started dealing marijuana. It was just numbers. He'd always been good at math, and now he found that he was good at this. Soon he was clearing $120 a day. But success got him into trouble. He says he was set up by a rival dealer in Central Park, fed to the cops. That was his first arrest. He was sent to Spofford Juvenile Detention Center in the Bronx (Mike Tyson's old haunt) for the summer. What did he do there? Shaved his head, put on muscle, learned a type of prison fighting called the B-52. "When I came out I was somebody. I was hard. I went back to school and was just wild. School was no longer important to me as far as education was concerned. At that time in my life, Manhattan Country School seemed so far away. It was like, I didn't even want anyone to know that I'd been there."

Poundforpound, you're right, of course. We're talking a black American cultural style here, not anything strictly racial. As my friend Life just told me, The 52 is all about completely humiliating your opponent, putting an ass-whipping on him so bad that, even if he's known for his fistic skills, he'll look like he's not even schooled. Again, analogous to street basketball's "in-yo-face" show-boating style (and again, Dikembe Mutumbo and Hakeem, that is, African ballplayers, do not play that way either....)

My friend Life also told me that although Tyson slips in a few 52 Blocks tech's in boxing, he's not really showing what he could because of the gloves. "Believe me, Tyson in a streetfight would be awesome," Life said. Because so much of the 52 require tech's of holding, locking, twisting etc, that you can hardly do with boxing gloves. I've also noticed that most of the things banned by even these extreme fighting competitions -- eye-gouging, blows to the throat and genitals -- are definitely incorporated in a 52 Blocks fight.

bttt

This is awesome.

http://www.geocities.com/delasalas2000/combatives.html

thanks to "footlock" for the URL. i scanned the same pix in, just did not have time to put up on my site.

that's Dennis Newsome doing the 52/JHR techniques.

"This forum is addictive. Glad I don't do any other drugs!"

It's not that addictive. I should know, I've been logging on every day for years.

Flashy? Well, the techs I saw on that link seemed solidly in the meat-and-potatoes category. Effective and efficient. Probably a lot more to it of course. Lovely elbow work.

Century

And if you were trained by a master with all the 52 moves that exist, you'd never REALLY capture them, unless you grew up in an inner city cultural environment.

Culture so often coincides with ethnicity that people sometimes get them confused. Bet you if a white child was raised in the inner city and taken in by a jailhouse guy he'd be comparable.

I heard about it from this guy who came to Canada from Brooklyn. He called it jailhouse boxing or just jailhouse. He said that in his block they'd play these games like you had to have your arms crossed over your chest, or you were fair game to be hit in the chest (see - culture). He also said it's really from the streets, although it's associated with jail. That one sequence where you go to your knees attacking with your arms was one thing he mentioned to me as a distinguishing strategy (we used to work out together). What you say about environment affecting how you do is also true, IMO. That same guy from Brooklyn was in a gang there, his folks sent him to Canada to get him away from them. Now he's working in securities.

century:

Is there a grappling component to 52 beyond the takedown, or is it all about hitting?

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